What do you think about the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Book

[Steely Dan]

I prefere regions that are real world "rip offs" with the fantasy level tuned up to 11... like the new Calimshan... maybe I never got the Old Empires (never cared for Maztica, Chult was enough for my taste) but their "magic level" allways seemed to low for me.

I see where you are coming from, like I have always been a huge Kara-Tur fan, but I definitely think it could do with a bit more of the fantastical.

As I am a gigantic Al-Qadim/anything genie related fan, this new Calimshan sounds right up my alley –sweet!

 

[The Little Raven]

Those "rip off regions" were the best parts of the setting - rich, vibrant, and detailed, and somewhat logical.

...if you like real-world stuff dropped in with only the slightest effort to file off the serial numbers. I don't, as I find that lazy and uninspired.

 

[El Mahdi]

. . . Well, to be fair, it seems like most of the current novels now are or will be taking place in this hundred-year gap, so I think they don't want to provide details because (a) the Novels aren't all finished and they don't want to spoil them and (b) there is enough of the "unknown" that they don't want to be tied into a fixed and detail 100-year plot.

I agree with you that this is probably why they don't have the timeline included. Not to argue, just stating fact, there hasn't been a campaign/setting book of FR in any edition, that didn't include a timeline. Now, I would understand them not reprinting timeline entries that are already more fleshed out in The Grand History of the Realms than they ever were in any other FR product, but not providing a timeline of the last 94 years, when a new campaign might very well be dependent on knowing what happened in those intervening years*, is completely unacceptable to me in a $40 product. I mean, this is THE Campaign Guide. This is the prime sourcebook for DM'ing the Realms. Now if revealing major timeline occurences would cause spoiler issues with upcoming novels, or even worse, they don't have the timeline fleshed out yet (despite having a bare-bones timeline included in their advertisement), this tells me one of two things: a) they weren't ready to reveal the new realms and don't have the game side in sync with the novel side - or b) they don't have the everyting properly fleshed out yet. I personally doubt it's "b". They could have given a timeline with all of the elements that wouldn't spoil the novels, or written them in a way as to be teasers for the novels. But, in comparison to other edition Campaign/Setting guide releases. This falls way short.

*The beginning of chapter 2 states: "The easiest way to adjust your campaign is to change it all at once. Continue your games events in 1375 DR and beyond if you wish, perhaps using some of the events described in chapter 6 and in Grand History of the Realms to introduce the "future history" of the setting into your game."

I understand that no-one is making you use FR canon in your game, however, there are those who want to use FR canon in their game. For those who want to use canon, at best, they are essentially running their games with loose "preview" style information. People running the Realms have already been doing that since the anouncement of 4E. However, this is a $40, supposedly definitive, sourcebook product. Without the timeline information, this product cannot be used as definitively as past edition campaign sourcebook products.

The timeline may not be that important to some, or even most, of the people who would buy this product. But to me, It is a huge hole in the middle of what otherwise is a pretty good product.

 

[Obryn]

I picked it up last night. It seems pretty solid. All told, though, I think the 1e Realms were the best, by far, with the various regional sourcebook/modules. The 1e Realms were even lighter on detail, but gave me just enough stuff to hook a campaign on. I still have my old Grey Box, along with the kickass maps.

IMHO, FR started to get crushed under its own weight through 2e, and got ridiculous in 3e and 3.5e (although the sourcebook was nice). I couldn't see myself running a 2e/3e Realms game, but I can totally see running a 1e or 4e Realms game now.

I'll join the chorus and say that some of my favorite, most exotic parts of the Realms will be missed. Halruaa, Dambrath, the Hordelands...

So yeah... 1e Realms > 4e Realms > 2e Realms > 3e Realms

-O

 

[Achan hiArusa]

...if you like real-world stuff dropped in with only the slightest effort to file off the serial numbers. I don't, as I find that lazy and uninspired.

Yeah, because you know doing the research on those cultures and adapting them to a new game world takes way less work then just taking modern day American culture and medievalizing it by taking away your cell phones and laptops and giving you swords. I'm sure there are a lot of game designers who would agree with you.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

...if you like real-world stuff dropped in with only the slightest effort to file off the serial numbers. I don't, as I find that lazy and uninspired.

So vibrant, detailed, logical, and realistic feeling settings are lazy and uninspired, but Ye Olde England rip off #453278 isn't?

I don't know if "racist" is the right term, but it's definately rearing it's head. "Lazy and uninspired," ironically, is pretty much how I'd classify this book. The adventure is lazy and uninspired. The changes are lazy and uninspired. The new places are lazy and uninspired. The OLD places that WERE lazy and uninspired are the ones that are still around, and yes, they're still lazy and uninspired.

 

[Primal]

Dang, and I was trying to be the first person referring to the original grey box, which is what keeps leaping to my mind as I read the 4e FRCG, high-level, easily digestible fluff (and there is actually a lot of it when you get down to it) that covers a lot of area (I'd rather have Dragon articles such as the Cormyr backdrop get into the nitty-gritty setting details). I do have to admit to a weird disconnect when I first started reading it, as I got used to the 3e style of tons and tons of information in tiny font packed into each page, but I'm getting over it.

I wonder if we read the same book, because I definitely didn't think of the 'Grey Boxed Set' when I was reading the FRCG -- on the contrary. While the original FR Boxed Set had a lot of juicy, well-written flavour and details, in my opinion most of the content in FRCG was lazily written and lacked "depth", details and most importantly, the "feel" and "spirit" of the Realms that I've come to love. It also lacked proper explanations for most of the changes (e.g. the sudden disappearances of several deities, or why some major deities have ended up being 'Exarchs'). I definitely felt a strong disconnect with the 4E Realms, and I think it was the worst FRCS yet (including the two Boxed Sets for 1E and 2E).

 

[TheSleepyKing]

Except for the Tuigan barbarians (who cares if the darkies are barbarians after all) every interesting nonwestern culture in the realms has been devastated or destroyed.

I have to agree. The spellplague seemingly selectively decimated nations that didn’t conform to the default D&D culture. And I think the realms are poorer (and blander) for it.

For those that argue against using real-world cultures, I have to beg to differ. RW cultures are a wonderful shorthand, a way of making a people relatable to your players without having to detail the intricacies of a culture. When I understand that Impiltur is gothic, Mulhorand is Egyptian or Chessenta is Greek, it immediately brings to mind architectures, cultures, clothing styles and belief systems that I can use to add color to a setting. It inspires stories that I can borrow from history, mythology and pop culture and creates the sense of a living, vibrant world. It means that if I want to create an adventure with an Egyption flavour I don’t have to leave the realms to do it.

Of course, in the 4e FR, it’s not just the RW analogues that got the chop. Anywhere that was differentiated from the default has been axed. Halruaa, Dambrath, Lapaliiya, Luiren, the Shaar and many more, all blown up.

 

[Oni]

In previous editions of the Realms, how many people actually featured in their games the more "exotic" locals that got the axe? They might be fun to read about but how many really used them?

 

[TheSleepyKing]

In previous editions of the Realms, how many people actually featured in their games the more "exotic" locals that got the axe? They might be fun to read about but how many really used them?

<puts his hand up>

I can't speak for the majority of players of course, but not only did I use them, but they added flavor to the realms even when the characters weren't there. For example, I created one adventure around a visit to Suzail by the pharoah of Mulhorand (who entered like Cleopatra in Rome). Of course, after 300 came out, one of my players wanted to play a hoplite, who would of course come from Chessenta. It not just the places that matter, it's the people and cultures, and they can make an appearance anywhere in the realms.