I was "booed" for even showing the 4e Core books

[Gothmog]

Uhmm...yeah, so poop jokes are not childish and yet ripping up a character sheet is childish...one more time, kettle here's pot, pot here's kettle.

I don't think either one is any more or less "childish" than the other, it's a purely perception thing...but I wouldn't defend against poop jokes being called childish and then turn around and say someone is childish for ripping their sheet up for a game they don't like.

From a psychological point of view, there is a big difference here. The player who stood up, ripped his sheet in half, and likely said something like "I'll never play this again!" is an attention whore, and begging for attention. In other words, throwing a temper tantrum to try to get his way (most likely trying to get the rest of the group to see how "righteous" he is, and convert back to his game of choice). I don't know if the person in question did this or not, but I'd guess he did, considering I've seen two other people do this as well when they got upset at a game (in 1e and 3e in those cases). Not having resepct for other people's opinions or fun, IS childish.

What WotC did with the dragonpoop was lowbrow, but funny in a multitude of ways, even if I wasn't a lover of 4e. Think about who the dragon pooped on- yes, the childish internet trolls who rant and rave in forums, making claims they can't back up, having never actually played the game, and saying things like "WotC ruined/raped my childhood memories of D&D." Again, this is preposterous and is the same kind of grandstanding and bullying the player who tore his sheet in half engaged in.

I admire whoever the writer of that cartoon was at WotC for having the cajones to stand up to the trolls and make fun of them in a humerous way. You know, if I had spent a lot of time and effort doing something for other people (mostly as a labor of love, because lets face it- game designers don't make big bucks), only to have others act like lunatic fanatics criticizing everything I did, I'd probably be a little bit peeved. Normally, I'd try to ignore it, but at some point there is a threshold of frustration you simply can't ignore any more, and saying something back helps you vent. Sometimes the only way to communicate with a tempermental child is in a language he understands.

 

[Fenes]

So much intolerance and arrogance. And so much hypocrisy. People aren't even allowed to tear up a character sheet without getting called childish, and worse.

 

[Umbran]

I mean give me a break, I just call it like I see it.

And they call it like they see it - you both have opinions. Everyone's allowed to have them, you know. That you think they're poorly formed does not negate that.

And before you go asking for breaks, perhaps you should look back to the "pot/kettle" comment you made a little while back. I think the Golden Rule applies - that you should give some breaks before you ask for them.

So, here's my suggestion - everyone here give each other a break. Cut your fellow EN Worlder's some slack - our opinions about a person we could not recognize even if we did ever meet them are not worth arguments and ill-will between folks we communicate with on a daily basis.

 

[Ulrick]

So much intolerance and arrogance. And so much hypocrisy. People aren't even allowed to tear up a character sheet without getting called childish, and worse.

This reminds me of another time I got "booed."

Back in the days of 2e, I consulted "Grimtooth's Traps" for inspiration for one of my games. The trap was crystal vase with gold pieces at the bottom. One player-character reached in and pulled a handful out. The PC's face turned blue. He reached in and pulled another handful of gold. His face turned green.

The PC then said, "Screw it, I'm gonna break the vase with my sword!"

I said, "Are you sure?" He eagerly agreed.

"Well, that was a stupid thing to do. You lose 8 intelligence points!"

The PC was outraged. The other PCs were aghast! But then another PC said, "why didn't you just pick the vase up and dump the gold out?"

Some of the players booed me. The PC whose paladin no longer had the Int to qualify for the Dragonslaying Kit found in the Complete Paladin's Handbook through a tantrum.

"Fine!" he yelled. "I'll just go read that Book of Vile Darkness we found earlier."

With that, he crumpled his character sheet into a little ball and through it at me, then stomped away from the table.

"Um...Okay," I said. "Then you're character loses his Lawful Good status, loads of XP, and a Night Hag comes and drags his soul off to Hades."

He crumpled character sheet up in less than a minute after hearing about his character's Int loss.

He never really gave me the chance to tell him that the intelligence loss was only temporary...

 

[doctorhook]

This reminds me of another time I got "booed."

Back in the days of 2e, I consulted "Grimtooth's Traps" for inspiration for one of my games. The trap was crystal vase with gold pieces at the bottom. One player-character reached in and pulled a handful out. The PC's face turned blue. He reached in and pulled another handful of gold. His face turned green.

The PC then said, "Screw it, I'm gonna break the vase with my sword!"

I said, "Are you sure?" He eagerly agreed.

"Well, that was a stupid thing to do. You lose 8 intelligence points!"

The PC was outraged. The other PCs were aghast! But then another PC said, "why didn't you just pick the vase up and dump the gold out?"

Some of the players booed me. The PC whose paladin no longer had the Int to qualify for the Dragonslaying Kit found in the Complete Paladin's Handbook through a tantrum.

"Fine!" he yelled. "I'll just go read that Book of Vile Darkness we found earlier."

With that, he crumpled his character sheet into a little ball and through it at me, then stomped away from the table.

"Um...Okay," I said. "Then you're character loses his Lawful Good status, loads of XP, and a Night Hag comes and drags his soul off to Hades."

He crumpled character sheet up in less than a minute after hearing about his character's Int loss.

He never really gave me the chance to tell him that the intelligence loss was only temporary...

This anecdote probably best describes why throwing a tantrum or getting overly "emotional" at the game table is childish: it may not be wise for the individual, and there's a good chance it's going to ruin everyone else's fun.

Regarding this "tearing up the character sheet business":

...Opinions from the group ranged from a luke warm "this is kinda ok" to one player standing up mid game, tearing up his character sheet and pronouncing that he was finished for the night.

The salient pieces of information here are (1) that the player stood up, tore up his character sheet, and declared that he was done for the evening, and (2) that Cold Beer relates this anecdote as the extreme negative reaction he encountered. Based on this information, I believe it's fair to conclude that this event occurred in dramatic fashion, and that, IMO, the player in question was therefore acting childishly.

What's so childish about this? It's making a statement, like walking out of a movie you don't enjoy.

One can also walk out of a D&D game, calmly and politely declining to play any further. What this player did is analogous to standing up in the theatre during the screening, yelling, "This movie sucks and I refuse to watch it any more!" It's tactless and immature.

 

[lutecius]

This anecdote probably best describes why throwing a tantrum or getting overly "emotional" at the game table is childish...

...and you do realize how it's different from the CS tearing episode, right?

Regarding this "tearing up the character sheet business"... One can also walk out of a D&D game, calmly and politely declining to play any further.

sigh... Imaro couldn't do it, but I'll try anyway:

Nothing in this anecdote says that player was not calm or polite.

Or even overdramatic. For all we know, it could have been amusing, depending on his tone and relations with the other players.
His was just the most extreme of some generally negative reactions. It doesn't sound like it broke friendships, split the group or even ruined an exciting game.

Also, character sheets aren't some sacred objects. Tearing them up is not rude. It can be fun and cathartic without being childish. Well, not more than pretending to kill orcs.

What this player did is analogous to standing up in the theatre during the screening, yelling, "This movie sucks and I refuse to watch it any more!"

No, really, it's not.

 

[Fenes]

It looks like any negative reaction aimed at a game system is taken personally - and in the worst possible light - by its supporters. I do expect that if someone had torn up his 3E character sheet after the 4E game the same people decrying his actions here would have lauded him.

 

[Fifth Element]

It looks like any negative reaction aimed at a game system is taken personally - and in the worst possible light - by its supporters. I do expect that if someone had torn up his 3E character sheet after the 4E game the same people decrying his actions here would have lauded him.

See, you're making assumptions there.

I, for example, have never played 4E. I plan to try it when my two 3E campaigns are done, in about 6 months. But I have no idea whether I'll like it enough to want to switch from 3E. I'd say it's about 50/50 at this point.

So when you assume I'm calling this behaviour childish because I'm a 4E supported, you're just plain wrong. I'm calling it childish because my very reasonable interpretation (outlined nicely by doctorhook above) was that it was a childish outburst.

Stop trying to read motives into other posters. It's not cool.

 

[Halivar]

I do expect that if someone had torn up his 3E character sheet after the 4E game the same people decrying his actions here would have lauded him.

I believe you are incorrect about this.

 

[Psion]

It looks like any negative reaction aimed at a game system is taken personally - and in the worst possible light - by its supporters. I do expect that if someone had torn up his 3E character sheet after the 4E game the same people decrying his actions here would have lauded him.

I suspect you're right.

I think the unnecessary physical act of destruction of *ripping a character sheet in half* is more likely to be an act of outrage. Not doing so emotively would seem the exception to me.