Your character died. Big deal.

[jensun]

Let's look at Aragorn for a good example. Before hooking up with Frodo and the fellowship, he has a mountain's worth of back story; a broken sword, a king in exile, an elven lover, etc, etc. How cool is Aragorn's story if he is killed by wolves after leaving Rivendell with the fellowship? Aragorn's back story is huge and having him randomly killed by the equivalent of wandering monsters is very anti-climatic. A player who brings Aragorn to the grim and gritty game is going to be very disappointed as the time spent in building the character may be wasted before the first session ends. On the flip side, Aragorn is perfect for the Lord of the Rings. He has lots of interesting hooks for the DM to use and his story is a driving factor in the plot of the game.

I think you have things a little backward. The issue isnt necessarily that Aragorn has a lot of backstory. Backstory is filler, its not very useful and if a character with lots of backstory dies so what, it hasn't actually affected the game very much. The frustrated novel writer player can create another character with a new backstory and be very happy.

The issue is that Aragorn has a lot of "story now", that is, issues in the character which demand to be addressed in play. How will his love affair with the princess turn out, will he dump her for the affections of a pretty horsemaid, will he ever return to the white city and claim his throne, can he withstand the corruption of Sauron or desire for the ring.

Killing Aragorn doesnt remove a bunch of backstory, it takes away a huge chunk of exciting and interesting drama and opportunities within the game. You could bring a new character in but he wont be as tied to the events that you already have running and will, almost inevitably, be a much damper squib.

 

[Mallus]

We find the argument that without death there can be no tension unconvincing.

Same here, but I realize some people feel the opposite pretty strongly.

Some fights will be flagged as "Death On." Essentially these are campaign critical encounters where you can die, really truly die and not just some revolving door "raise dead is only 500gp" cheap ass meaningless death.

I've read about various 'death-flag' rules and I'm intrigued.

 

[Blair Goatsblood]

The game wouldn't be the same without characters dying 5 minutes into the game from beetles shooting napalm out of their butts. Or the wizard accidentally setting the rogue, who's writhing on the floor dying from poison, on fire.

In the world of swords & sorcery, life is cheap, horrible death awaits around any corners, and conan's player was a DAMN LUCKY ROLLER.

I my game, you always have a backup character prepared, you get hand-waved minutes after dying ("I was just exploring this dungeon by myself and I found you guys fighting trolls. Who's the dead guy?"), and your backstory is usually along the lines of "I am from the viking isles. I was cast out of my clan. I like to wear jewelry"

 

[justanobody]

Anyone know offhand if the Chainmail fantasy rules had ways to bring units back after they were destroyed?

Pretty much just like DDM 1.0, and Warhammer (probably every other miniature game.). Any unit that becomes a casualty or routes off the table, if out of the rest of the game.

*Chainmail 3rd edition by Gygax & Perren

Reincarnation: A spell to bring a dead character back to life in some other form.

*Volume 1: Men & Magic - Gygax & Arneson -1974

@Henry:

Series of bad dice (that get fed to a chipper) always suck. There is nothing really you can do about it or a series of bad choices. I would rather keep playing than bother with being mad during the game. I can take my revenge for the fallen character out on the next enemy with the new character.

Death isn't something that should be minor in the game, but there is little you can do after it has already happened.

Don't even get me started on making characters in Rifts. I would rather fill out my tax return.

I think those most folks may need a few more death of characters to understand. It is NOT fun to lose ANY character, but there really is nothing you can do except start rolling a new one, while you wait for the party to see if they can bring you back to life. I have seen players so mad to disrupt the game, and as fun as it is, you just have to take the loss with the gains. Nobody enjoys it, it is just how they handle it at the table that matters. In another thread I stated I would step outside, and have a smoke to digest where I made the mistake. I can blame the dice all I want at any time, but cannot go back in time to change anything, so just have to be more careful with the next character.

So I don't want to see people shrug off a death and be happy about it, but don't want someone to disrupt a game because of it either. It happens, it is just how you handle it that matters most.

Mundane survival tasks are boring until that thing jumps out of the lake! Which may cause death or dismemberment. I have not been lucky enough to be eaten by scarabs yet, but too often have been the meal for a mimic.

 

[Simon Atavax]

You have stumbled upon one of the great emerging divides in RPGs.

Some folks feel strongly--realy strongly--that you should have a player "green light" before axing their character.

I have never played with such a person, thankfully, and hope I never will.

 

[justanobody]

I have never played with such a person, thankfully, and hope I never will.

I'm confused. What did I miss where? "green light"?

You need permission from the player to kill his character or something?

 

[Dausuul]

I'm confused. What did I miss where? "green light"?

You need permission from the player to kill his character or something?

Pretty much, yes.

The "death flag" idea is one that I've been curious about too, though I've yet to play with it. As I understand it, the concept is this: Under normal circumstances, your PC has Plot Protection. You can't actually die - you'll just be knocked unconscious or taken prisoner or some such. However, in a situation where you really want to put it all on the line, you can raise your "death flag." This means you get a significant bonus to all your die rolls; however, it also means you waive your Plot Protection and are now subject to dying.

The basic concept appeals to me, although I dislike eliminating all risk of death. I might try some kind of variant, though. For instance (this is just a rough idea, would need some tweaking): PCs who "die" might roll a number of "death dice," these being d6s. If at least one of your death dice comes up 4 or higher, you're KOed and will recover after an extended rest. Otherwise, you're dead. You normally have three death dice, but at any point during an encounter, you can trade in a death die to improve a d20 roll you just made by 2. At the end of the encounter, you get all of your death dice back.

Of course, I'd probably want to couple this with some more serious penalty for dying than what currently exists - maybe require all new characters to cope with a sizeable death penalty, so people willing to risk character death don't just trade in all three death dice every fight. And of course you wouldn't be allowed to use death dice in situations where there isn't a significant risk of death.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

The idea that someone needs to give the green light before having their character killed is a bizarre and alien one to me. This ain't no writer's workshop. If you want to tell the story about your hero's epic quest, then head on over to fanfiction.net. The rest of us will be playing the game and, as a game, that means there's a chance to fail.

The problem, I think, is this idea of "If I die, I LOSE THE GAME." Personally, I LOVE dying. It's very often that, not long after character creation, I get that perfectly timed "Oh wait, this idea is MUCH MORE AWESOME!" So, just like someone else in this thread, dying gives me the chance to bring in more cool ideas.

You know, for a group that says "Don't take fantasy seriously," you sure do take your fantasy characters seriously ;p

 

[Imaro]

Okay, I have a quick question for those who ascribe to the "green light" character death philosophy... does this apply to any of the DM's NPC's? I mean if you have an NPC who has tons of story potential or is integral to your campaign, or you just like using as a recurring villain for the characters. Does he/she only die at a narratively appropriate time? And if so who decides this and do your players know about it? Just curious.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm confused. What did I miss where? "green light"?

You need permission from the player to kill his character or something?

Yes, some groups, in some campaigns (or all) agree that character death is something special and must be meaningful (and heroic).

I found the "Martyr" card in Torg particularly interesting. It was a card rarely actually played, usually it was turned in for a possibility. But sometimes, it was used, to get the party out of a fight that turned wrong. The player played it, and his actions would guarantee the rest of the party at least some sense of success - typically killing the opposition or forcing it to retreat, or at least giving the party the time to retreat - but you'd sacrifice your character for it. Of course, character death was possible without this card.

The "Death Flag" idea is pretty similar, except that you normally agree to not kill anyone (well, any PC - loved ones, mentors, allies, innocent virgin sacrifices or what-else are still fair game) until the flag is raised.