Writing a manual for roleplay

[Amanchanamun]

4th edition very nice as a system. But there is nothing about roleplay. It starts as a game telling about dices finishes as a game telling about rituals. I feel myself sometimes, i am playing battle chess.

Did you ever look at vampire games, the game is not looking like a game. It is serious and gives incredible options for role play.

In dnd, There is incredible deficiency on roleplay for published products and to cover this, i start to write a manual of roleplay which will be more or less 300 pages when it is finished.

Anybody who is interested helping me or interested in publishing such a thing, please keep in touch me. Especially artists and good story writters are mostly welcomed.

There are many people who doesnt get inside of 4th , even to 3rd edition cause of there is no role play. Something like this could gather everybody in one way.

I am a dm but before that i am a lover of this game. If even i do not find any publisher, i will publish in my country and give even free to people to continue loving game.

I am tired of money sucking policies. Adventure vault 1-2-3-4-55-66-99. What is this ?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

4th edition very nice as a system. But there is nothing about roleplay. It starts as a game telling about dices finishes as a game telling about rituals. I feel myself sometimes, i am playing battle chess.

That was a great game! Too bad I suck at chess. (I could probably get better at it by training...

But you missed the part between the dices and the rituals where they discussed character personalities and similar topics. The non-mechanical introduction in role-playing games in the PHB 4E looked larger then I knew from 3E - and it comes clearly before the real rules...

Did you ever look at vampire games, the game is not looking like a game. It is serious and gives incredible options for role play.

I looked at Exalted 2E - still looked like a game for me, but with a lot of "role-playing"/storytelling mechanics to it. I found that very interesting and I am a little disappointed that D&D 4 didn't have such stuff.

In dnd, There is incredible deficiency on roleplay for published products and to cover this, i start to write a manual of roleplay which will be more or less 300 pages when it is finished.

Be careful with your words - I've learned that not everyone understands the same under the term "role-playing" as I do (or as you do, either). Some people associate with role-playing more the "problem-solving" aspects and "in-scene" thinking, stuff like figuring out how to disable a trap or how to navigate a dungeon, and less the "story-telling" aspects... Just so that you know.

I suppose you are talking about stuff like "what's this character about? What kind of story do I want to tell? How do I describe the characters personality (possibly with rules, possibly just with narration)?

I am tired of money sucking policies. Adventure vault 1-2-3-4-55-66-99. What is this ?

I don't know? What are you talking about?

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I am tired of money sucking policies. Adventure vault 1-2-3-4-55-66-99. What is this ?

Are you referring to PHB2, MM2, and so on?

If so, how is this different to any other edition of the game, or indeed many other editions of other games, such as Vampire?

I am also very wary of someone who dismisses the roleplay potential of 4e. I have a group playing through Keep on the Shadowfell (story hour in sig) and they don't seem to have any problems with role-playing.

Is it your opinion that role-playing needs rules to support it, such as Benefits and Flaws mechanics? What sort of things are you planning on putting in your Manual of Roleplay - this will give people a very good idea as to whether or not they're interested in collaborating in writing it?

 

[Aus_Snow]

Roleplaying is a thing you choose to do (or not to do, alternatively). It is not something that others can do for you, that can be 'given' to you, or that you can be made to do.

That said, could you please provide even a teensy example of the kind of thing you have in mind for this book? I'm sceptical, as ever I suppose, but curiosity endures.

So yeah, what's the plan? A guidebook like 'The Playing of Roles 101', a whole shedload of 'roleplaying' mechanics welded onto D&D 4e, some of both. . .?

 

[justanobody]

Are you referring to PHB2, MM2, and so on?

If so, how is this different to any other edition of the game, or indeed many other editions of other games, such as Vampire?

Because it was invented in D&D for 3rd edition and for 25 years prior there was no such thing as PHB2, etc.

I am also very wary of someone who dismisses the roleplay potential of 4e. I have a group playing through Keep on the Shadowfell (story hour in sig) and they don't seem to have any problems with role-playing.

The point is the book has nothing to offer for it, and mostly only goes into combat statistics. Not that there is not roleplay potential in 4th edition, just the books have little to nothing about it outside of some flavour text.

Is it your opinion that role-playing needs rules to support it, such as Benefits and Flaws mechanics? What sort of things are you planning on putting in your Manual of Roleplay - this will give people a very good idea as to whether or not they're interested in collaborating in writing it?

PHB = Player's Handbook
DMG= Dungeon Masters Guide

Neither of these claim to be books of hard-coded rule nor do they need to be. You don't have to have rules for it to give examples of roleplaying that could be done outside of combat style play like the skill challenges for social encounters.

Being open ended is good for those that know what they are doing, but for new players they are poking around in the dark without the examples seasoned players have through experience.

I would wager a guess that they might be things related to how to develop the character of a PC without trying to interact with the stats. That is what roleplaying is, everything outside of the stats blocks. At least I would hope that is what is meant.

There is a lot that can be done with 4th, but nothing presented for new players about it and no focus on it in the books. Which leads to little incentive or inspiration to roleplay without some focus on it.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Because it was invented in D&D for 3rd edition and for 25 years prior there was no such thing as PHB2, etc.

O RLY?

That's just a literal example, of course, but there are oh so many others that may as well be '_______' x.

 

[Amanchanamun]

Being an other person

Thank you for the comments. Let me explain in an other way. I was 14 or 15 years old when i started playing with a group of people together this game. Fantasy role play , it meant to me to get a role in a fantasy world. To be a person different to be different what you are now.

We never told we want to be a paladin. We told that , we wanted to manage a character who didnt know much about his past but feeled that he was a good person and trying to help people in every condition. Someone who started to see things unreal since he was half mad and even schizophrene and he had no clue about it.

These things made me to play this game not throwing dices. Ofcourse this is my idea. There could be people who doesnt want to play game like this.

What i am planning is.

It will start with a told scene like coming from novels. I want to describe a nonfamous hero from start what he experienced with events and with encounters. How a villain is born and how is a hero born.

Ofcourse there will be backgrounds but not like, he likes swimming. I want to put real combinations. A man looking strict at sight, but giving crucial importance to families and willing for goodness, although he is not a good person at all. is what i want as a start.

There will be flaw-merit system but not like before. Merits for a contract with DM. Dm puts an entangle front of a character by offering a nice bonus to him about something. But dm doesnt tell what it is to the character.

Story elements ,it will be the strongest point of the manual.

There are ofcourse many things which not about game mechanics. But the story , but the living world but a being who has a personality.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Because it was invented in D&D for 3rd edition and for 25 years prior there was no such thing as PHB2, etc.

There were sure as hell lot of supplements, right? Whether you classify them according to Core Books and then just number them or use a different scheme, expansions or "splats" have been around for a long time.

The point is the book has nothing to offer for it, and mostly only goes into combat statistics. Not that there is not roleplay potential in 4th edition, just the books have little to nothing about it outside of some flavour text.

The PHB has a section on roleplaying and about character traits and personality - even before it reaches the "real" rules, so I think it gives examples. Are they enough for a beginning player? I think so. Similar text in the Shadowrun 3E core rulebook gave me an idea of what Roleplaying would be, too, when I was still a beginning player...

PHB = Player's Handbook
DMG= Dungeon Masters Guide

Neither of these claim to be books of hard-coded rule nor do they need to be. You don't have to have rules for it to give examples of roleplaying that could be done outside of combat style play like the skill challenges for social encounters.

Being open ended is good for those that know what they are doing, but for new players they are poking around in the dark without the examples seasoned players have through experience.

I would wager a guess that they might be things related to how to develop the character of a PC without trying to interact with the stats. That is what roleplaying is, everything outside of the stats blocks. At least I would hope that is what is meant..

I don't think that's Amanchanamun definition, because he is refering to Vampire. If I get it right, Vampire (the entire Storyteller Line even, and Exalted) have rules that affect character personality and represent things that in D&D are mostly without rules. Conviction, Flaws, Virtues, what-you-have. The closest D&D has to this are the alignments, and they don't provide the mechanical perks (and drawbacks) of these mechanics.

 

[Grimstaff]

A Roleplay-focused book - good idea (in fact, Goodman Games just released one iirc).

Using a fallacy about 4E to promote it - not a good idea.

Ah, found it, it's "PC Pearls: A Collection of Character Inspiration". Looks to be just what you're looking for, OP!

 

[justanobody]

O RLY?

That's just a literal example, of course, but there are oh so many others that may as well be '_______' x.

MC1-14 as well.

These are not PHBs or DMGs. New monsters are one thing, but for a PHB to need a second copy is pretty damn silly.

There were sure as hell lot of supplements, right? Whether you classify them according to Core Books and then just number them or use a different scheme, expansions or "splats" have been around for a long time.


The PHB has a section on roleplaying and about character traits and personality - even before it reaches the "real" rules, so I think it gives examples. Are they enough for a beginning player? I think so. Similar text in the Shadowrun 3E core rulebook gave me an idea of what Roleplaying would be, too, when I was still a beginning player...


I don't think that's Amanchanamun definition, because he is refering to Vampire. If I get it right, Vampire (the entire Storyteller Line even, and Exalted) have rules that affect character personality and represent things that in D&D are mostly without rules. Conviction, Flaws, Virtues, what-you-have. The closest D&D has to this are the alignments, and they don't provide the mechanical perks (and drawbacks) of these mechanics.

PHBII does not indicate it to be an optional/"splat" book, but a continuation of the PHB. One that should not be needed if the PHB was correct the first time to provide a complete game. So the Martial Powers book, I thought was where would add things like more martial classes, not more stuff for existing martial classes.

You only should need to create a single PHB and DMG, if done right. It worked for 20+ years, so why no longer?

There was plenty of room for more on roleplay than exists. I wish someone would take the time to count pages/sections on how much is devoted to roleplay and how much is devoted to combat, but it seems a good majority from all that I have read of people looking into say the books are mostly combat oriented and I do not disagree with those people.

I could be wrong, but that was just my idea from my experience with Vampire and its other games. Very little comes down to stats usage because it isn't so combat focused.