mach1.9pants
Hero
Yep I agree
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Playtest: The Druid (merged)
- Thread starter Fallen Seraph
- Start date
Don't forget Arcane Power the month after!
PH2 = March '09
Arcane Power = April '09
yesnomu
First Post
For at-wills, I like Chill Wind, Flame Seed, Pounce and Savage Rend. A mix of both modes, useful things to do (sliding!) in each, hitting two defenses, not too situational.
I'm not really happy with any of the level 1 encounters, though. Nothing I like quite as much as Icy Terrain. Flash Freeze is notable for being a level 1 encounter immobilize, though.
Faerie Fire is a badass daily, as is Fire of Life. Man, Fire of Life on a bunch of minions is like Flame Strike and Mass Cure Light Wounds together. Very nice.
I'm not really happy with any of the level 1 encounters, though. Nothing I like quite as much as Icy Terrain. Flash Freeze is notable for being a level 1 encounter immobilize, though.
Faerie Fire is a badass daily, as is Fire of Life. Man, Fire of Life on a bunch of minions is like Flame Strike and Mass Cure Light Wounds together. Very nice.
Phaezen
Adventurer
Dragon #370 Table of Contents
Looks like we will be getting a bit more Druid info on Friday:
Other interesting things to note, Druid and Invoker tags have been changed from Playtest to Preview. Makes sense as the book is most likely in final editing or at the printers by now.
Phaezen
Looks like we will be getting a bit more Druid info on Friday:
Dragon #370 Table of Contents said:
Other interesting things to note, Druid and Invoker tags have been changed from Playtest to Preview. Makes sense as the book is most likely in final editing or at the printers by now.
Phaezen
Baumi
Adventurer
This might be, but a Preview is just an Advertisement and quite useless for a Dragon Subscriber. Level 1-3 is to low for most ongoing campaigns and new Campaigns will surely not include a Class since you soon outgrow that level and that player would have to change his Character.
It's nice to have something to quell the curiosity about the new classes, but I want Articles that can actually be used by Players or the GM.
firesnakearies
Explorer
Just . . . wow.
Is it April 1 already?
I, for one, welcome our new druid overlords!
Look, I'm not saying that 4E is like WoW, or any of that. I'm just saying that IF the head R&D guys at WotC DO happen to play WoW, I'm willing to wager on what their main characters' class is. "Sweet, I finally got my Wildfury Greatstaff! Now I can get back to work on Player's Handbook 2."
I don't like to use phrases like, "most blatant pandering ever" or "WTF overpowered much?" or "wizards are obsolete now" . . . but come ON.
Imagine if you took one class that already exists, and then just made it totally better in every way. Or, just read this druid preview.
Swordmages didn't make fighters look like an endangered species.
Artificers and bards don't seem to make clerics and warlords look like sorry jokes.
Barbarians don't seem to make rogues and rangers look like future unemployment line rejects.
But druids? Seriously, if this is what the class looks like when PHB2 goes to print, I'm going to be appalled.
This looks to me like we have a SERIOUS case of "developer's favorite class" syndrome.
Also, apparently dwarves are the most natural choice for druids now? Nice.
I've been pretty ardently defending every mechanical AND flavor/lore choice that's been made for 4E, even the controversial things and the radical departures from the older versions.
But this druid is just plain nonsense.
"Sup, Mr. Wizard guy? I'm a lot like you, except, I kinda make you look like a chump. Pretty much, anything you can do, I can do better. Cloud of Daggers? Neat, I guess. I've got something just like that, except mine affects NINE squares at-will, instead of just one. Kinda makes me feel like I'm cheating, frankly. I also get a lot more hit points and better armor than you, oh, and I can use the same stat that gives me more hit points to also raise my AC."
"Plus I can smash face in melee whenever I want, if I get bored with casting way better spells than you from range. If I was any kind of reasonable class, I'd have to, like, pick between two main stats for my melee or ranged focus, but heh, I'm a druid, so just Wisdom does it all for me. All of my melee at-will attack powers hit non-AC defenses, and I use my ranged-spell stat for them, and oh yeah, they're ALL basic attacks. Heh."
"I can auto-kill a pile of minions without an attack roll, using just a level 1 at-will power. You? Not only can I set up colossal zone of auto-damage at-will, I've got a whole ton of other at-wills and encounter powers that I can use, at range OR in melee, to slide or pull people into, through, and back into my huge at-will deathfire zone."
"Did I mention I can shred guys in melee, and have better AC and hit points than anyone besides the defenders? Yeah. Did I mention that I'm sliding and/or slowing people with my melee basic attacks, all the time, in addition to full damage, against a weak defense? Yeah, I'm a controller, by the way. Like you! Well, not really. I DO cast ranged AoEs and zones at-will, when I'm not busy doing cooler stuff in melee than the fighters can do."
"I've also got more at-wills than most other two classes combined. Your little spellbook thing is okay, I guess, but I get to actually do more stuff in reality, not just in theory "oh, I COULD have memorized that other spell today..." I've got frost shock, too. Er, frost "flash" -- whatever we're calling it. Call of the Beast is just so absurd for an at-will that I'm not even going to go into that one."
"Also, are you handing out free healing to multiple party members, without requiring surge use, WHILE killing a bunch of minions at range, Mr. Wizard? At 1st level? Oh no, I guess you're not. Dude, you're kinda weak. Wait'll you see my higher-level powers, my special feats, my special items, my paragon paths, my epic destinies. I'll be free-action-shifting into a ridiculous flying form before you can finish reading PHB2. Watch me."
"By the way, I'm a dwarf, so it's pretty intuitive that I'd be the ideal exemplar of druidism, don't you think? When I think of preserving nature, I think of a race of obsessive strip-miners with countless pollution-spewing forges, personally. How about you?"
"I guess I technically don't make EVERY other class obsolete. I mean, we could still use a healer or two, I suppose. And maybe rangers and rogues could still be slightly useful. But I do know for sure that we don't need YOU anymore, Dumbledore. So kick rocks, kid. But don't kick 'em too hard, because I'm a dwarven druid and that'll make me angry. And you know damn well you can't take me."
The 4E Druid: Because apparently people at organized-play competitive D&D tournaments were complaining about having to spend time trying to decide what class to play.
Again: I, for one, welcome our new druid overlords!
(Is the new logo on the PHB2 just going to say Dungeons & Druids, or what?)
$
Is it April 1 already?
I, for one, welcome our new druid overlords!
Look, I'm not saying that 4E is like WoW, or any of that. I'm just saying that IF the head R&D guys at WotC DO happen to play WoW, I'm willing to wager on what their main characters' class is. "Sweet, I finally got my Wildfury Greatstaff! Now I can get back to work on Player's Handbook 2."
I don't like to use phrases like, "most blatant pandering ever" or "WTF overpowered much?" or "wizards are obsolete now" . . . but come ON.
Imagine if you took one class that already exists, and then just made it totally better in every way. Or, just read this druid preview.
Swordmages didn't make fighters look like an endangered species.
Artificers and bards don't seem to make clerics and warlords look like sorry jokes.
Barbarians don't seem to make rogues and rangers look like future unemployment line rejects.
But druids? Seriously, if this is what the class looks like when PHB2 goes to print, I'm going to be appalled.
This looks to me like we have a SERIOUS case of "developer's favorite class" syndrome.
Also, apparently dwarves are the most natural choice for druids now? Nice.
I've been pretty ardently defending every mechanical AND flavor/lore choice that's been made for 4E, even the controversial things and the radical departures from the older versions.
But this druid is just plain nonsense.
"Sup, Mr. Wizard guy? I'm a lot like you, except, I kinda make you look like a chump. Pretty much, anything you can do, I can do better. Cloud of Daggers? Neat, I guess. I've got something just like that, except mine affects NINE squares at-will, instead of just one. Kinda makes me feel like I'm cheating, frankly. I also get a lot more hit points and better armor than you, oh, and I can use the same stat that gives me more hit points to also raise my AC."
"Plus I can smash face in melee whenever I want, if I get bored with casting way better spells than you from range. If I was any kind of reasonable class, I'd have to, like, pick between two main stats for my melee or ranged focus, but heh, I'm a druid, so just Wisdom does it all for me. All of my melee at-will attack powers hit non-AC defenses, and I use my ranged-spell stat for them, and oh yeah, they're ALL basic attacks. Heh."
"I can auto-kill a pile of minions without an attack roll, using just a level 1 at-will power. You? Not only can I set up colossal zone of auto-damage at-will, I've got a whole ton of other at-wills and encounter powers that I can use, at range OR in melee, to slide or pull people into, through, and back into my huge at-will deathfire zone."
"Did I mention I can shred guys in melee, and have better AC and hit points than anyone besides the defenders? Yeah. Did I mention that I'm sliding and/or slowing people with my melee basic attacks, all the time, in addition to full damage, against a weak defense? Yeah, I'm a controller, by the way. Like you! Well, not really. I DO cast ranged AoEs and zones at-will, when I'm not busy doing cooler stuff in melee than the fighters can do."
"I've also got more at-wills than most other two classes combined. Your little spellbook thing is okay, I guess, but I get to actually do more stuff in reality, not just in theory "oh, I COULD have memorized that other spell today..." I've got frost shock, too. Er, frost "flash" -- whatever we're calling it. Call of the Beast is just so absurd for an at-will that I'm not even going to go into that one."
"Also, are you handing out free healing to multiple party members, without requiring surge use, WHILE killing a bunch of minions at range, Mr. Wizard? At 1st level? Oh no, I guess you're not. Dude, you're kinda weak. Wait'll you see my higher-level powers, my special feats, my special items, my paragon paths, my epic destinies. I'll be free-action-shifting into a ridiculous flying form before you can finish reading PHB2. Watch me."
"By the way, I'm a dwarf, so it's pretty intuitive that I'd be the ideal exemplar of druidism, don't you think? When I think of preserving nature, I think of a race of obsessive strip-miners with countless pollution-spewing forges, personally. How about you?"
"I guess I technically don't make EVERY other class obsolete. I mean, we could still use a healer or two, I suppose. And maybe rangers and rogues could still be slightly useful. But I do know for sure that we don't need YOU anymore, Dumbledore. So kick rocks, kid. But don't kick 'em too hard, because I'm a dwarven druid and that'll make me angry. And you know damn well you can't take me."
The 4E Druid: Because apparently people at organized-play competitive D&D tournaments were complaining about having to spend time trying to decide what class to play.
Again: I, for one, welcome our new druid overlords!
(Is the new logo on the PHB2 just going to say Dungeons & Druids, or what?)
$
Last edited:
RangerWickett
Legend
As a counterpoint, looking at the druid, I now wish all the other classes were made this powerful, dynamic, and interesting. The fact that the druid has more fun stuff it can do than any other class is not a problem with the druid being "too good." It's a problem with the other classes being "too boring."
Alas, I know WotC won't do it, but I'd love it if the druid would become the baseline of class power level.
Alas, I know WotC won't do it, but I'd love it if the druid would become the baseline of class power level.
