How have you used terrain to make combat more tactically interesting & exciting?

[chaotix42]

@ Rughat: I give them hints at what could be. I'll describe any features and what they can reasonably expect from a character's point of view. I leave difficulty a secret, though once again I'll drop hints like "it looks tough, even for you, to roll that boulder." Sometimes I'll tell them exactly the effect an action will create, and other times I'm a bit vague, especially if it helps to foster a sense of mystery and reward in the process. When the PCs were pondering blowing up the boiler in my sewer combat I didn't tell them that it would stun whoever it hit - when they did it and I told them there was a unanimous "YEAH!" So, I definitely think that well-laid surprises are good.

 

[OchreJelly]

I noticed the OP mentions use of SKG tiles. I recently picked up a bunch of cave tiles and mounted them on foam board. I have yet to use them in an actual session but I'm looking forward to it.

In your experience how well do they work? I noticed you mentioned that you had underground rivers. Did you happen to use the flooded chambers set? I was eyeballing that one, but wasn't sure if it was 100% flooded or if it actually had land bridges that could connect to cave tiles.

 

[Ryujin]

There has been more than one occasion upon which I've had to resort to using my light crossbow, rather than my crappy range [10] Warlock powers. Borodin's Watch comes immediately to mind. What a pain that was for the rest of the party and how useless I was until they started working closer to me.

Then again I've been able to teleport places that would have taken rounds to get to, because of terrain obstacles, and secure a foothold for the party, in some of those same situations. Occasionally I'll get above the battle and be able to snipe with impunity but as levels increase, those opportunities are fewer and harder to come by.

Topology can make for some very interesting situations. It can both work for, and against you.

 

[Rechan]

Dang. I'm currently running the H/P modules; I'm just abotu to start KoS, and it's hard to think of how to implement this stuff into a rather drab dungeon crawl.

Many of these circumstances seem to require them being engineered for it.

Another fight I was a part of as a player was in a burning corn field. Fire and smoke created concealment and the rows of corn made it so anybody could pop out from nowhere. It was a hide and seek type fight that worked really well.

This is really intriguing. I'd like to get an idea of the map (to see how the rows were done) and such.

 

[Smeelbo]

This is a very useful thread. I have not run very many 4E battles, but I did get good results out of testing "Cornery Walls," walls that act like corners for purposes of hiding (http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...us-walls-depicting-caves-tunnels-squares.html).

More than once, the rogue scouting ahead literally bumped into a hidden guard, beginning combat suddenly, and not at a time of either side's choosing. It was a little easier to become hidden in combat, but that was so time consuming, I did not see it as overpowering.

My DM has made little use of terrain so far, nothing more complex than winding sewers, which involved some Athletic jump tests.

Smeelbo

 

[OchreJelly]

I made good use of the SKG coniferous forest tiles for the first time last night. It really spiced up an outdoor encounter. I made it so the pine tree tiles block line of effect (if there are 2+ squares of tree between the target and the player). They were also difficult terrain. It effectively created three different funneling paths on the battlefield.

Just placing a couple of rocks or logs can make an outdoor scene interesting.

 

[Nail]

Good thread, DrSpunj!

While I've tried to throw some active environmental pieces in with most every combat most of them really haven't felt all that special or dynamic, not nearly as much as I'd hoped anyway.

Agreed. ...and that's not casting aspersions on my DM. (I really enjoy his game!) Setting up "dynamic" combats are hard, methinks, and I've seen others have a hard time of it too.

Part of the problem is that the monsters almost always have the advantage. Although that certainly toughens the fight - making those XPs harder to earn - it doesn't make the fight "more dynamic". It just makes it tougher, which may or may not be more "fun". Fun and tough are different things! If making the terrain "one of the monsters" is just another way to play "screw the PCs", it doesn't make the terrain much different than it was in 3.xe.

I think what 4e is pointing to - what the "dynamic battlefield" is all about - is that the terrain takes part in the combat, but doesn't necessarily take sides. If the PCs are clever they can use the terrain to their advantage......and even if they don't, the terrain adds variety to what choices the PCs have.

Using DrSpunj's last game as an example: We (the PCs) were hiking across the desert, in amongst sandy bluffs and dunes. Suddenly we get ambushed, with enemies burrowing out of the ground right next to us, as well as poping up on the sandstone cliffs above us (and shooting blinding-spit or On-going poison spikes). Yoowch!

Within the first round the PCs are pinned and surrounded. Little tactical movement was open to us. The fact that there were cliffs to climb, multiple gullies to circle around, and ranged attackers meant little. We had to just close ranks, duke it out with the melee enemies pressing in on us, and hope that we'd last long enough to get to the artillery types. Dangerous? Yes! But not "dynamic".

So: How could the terrain have been more tactically interesting and exciting?

• The first thing might be monster placement. The monsters were on us immediately, and from all directions, meaning there was little point or opportunity to take advantage of all of the cool terrain. Having them spend time moving, and coming in more widely spaced waves would allow the PCs time to move themselves.

• The second thing might be putting obvious "PC changable" terrain elements. Climbing the cliffs was difficult because they were so loose...might it be possible to cause them to collapse instead, bringing the artillery down to us? PCs often need clear hints that this sort of stuff would work.

• The third thing might be putting a reachable non-melee goal into the fight. The monsters that attacked us burrowed out of the ground....maybe their lair entrance is obvious and nearby, with some dry underbrush around it, just begging to be lit? Or maybe there is a stone mesa nearby to retreat to? Or perhaps one of the controller beasts has a jeweled collar on, that if removed quells all of the beasts? Etc.

Bottom Line: Maybe "dynamic 4e terrain" is different than "monsters have even more advantages than they did before".

 

[Rechan]

The first thing might be monster placement. The monsters were on us immediately, and from all directions, meaning there was little point or opportunity to take advantage of all of the cool terrain. Having them spend time moving, and coming in more widely spaced waves would allow the PCs time to move themselves.

As a DM, I think it's almost instinctive to get your monsters in there fast and get them working. Because any amount of time they're doddling, that's basically time they're dieing without being useful.

I've had monsters obliterated within the first round, before they got a chance to attack. The high priest surrounded by minions on the other side of the cavern = SLEEP.

A melee monster that takes a round to get to you is basically carrying a large bullseye and a scene above his head saying "Please put some damage dice into me."

As a DM, I feel like I have to go for the throat just so the monsters can do something before they get waxed.

 

[ZetaStriker]

I've been using traps and terrain more and more lately to spice up adventures. A few examples of what I did:

-In a recent showdown with this section of the campaigns BBEG, it turned out that he was kind of a push-over. Fortunately, he makes up for this by relying on outside strength. In the encounter, he activated a trap in his office, bisecting the room with walls of force. The PCs were trapped in a 30 x 40 section of the room, with the only access to their enemy being teleportation(for the Eladrin) or a moderate Athletics or Acrobatics check to climb or balance across a several inch wide ledge outside the windows. The BBEG summoned a pair of Imps to harry them, but it was his attack method that was rather unique.

Basically, as a move action he could prepare a trap, and as a standard action, he could activate it. He had 3 types. A cylinder could rise from the ground which would release a Close Burst 1 blade spin attack, a nozzle could emerge from the wall and shoot a line of fire to the opposite wall, or wires could dangle from the ceiling, which had Reach 2 and could immobilize PCs to set up for other traps. After the PCs realized how his traps worked, he actually did very little damage, but he kept them moving about the room and nervous, making the fight dynamic and interesting. In fact, instead of killing the BBEG, they targeted and destroyed his control mechanism first, giving him a chance to escape and survive to the next session.

-Later, the PCs entered a ruined building and triggered a collapse. Cave-in's chased them down hallways as they were forced to weave between sections of weakened floor that were basically False-Floor Pits, and in the midst of this, they awoke a Dragon Wyrmling that was resting in a room below. It ended up turning into an interesting chase sequence, where the PC's actions caused the collapsing walls, floors and ceilings to come down upon the dragon more than themselves, before they were finally cornered in a spiral staircase when the dragon leapt down the middle to catch up. Even then, they still managed to use the staircase to their advantage when the Warlock slid the dragon off the staircase for some falling damage and time to assault it from afar.

-The next one I'm planning takes place in an underground antechamber, which is trapped to spray oil all over the floor and ignite it by having all the torch holders on the walls drop their burdens into it all. They'll have a fight against several Tieflings in this room, and two of my three party members are Tieflings, making almost everyone involved immune to its damage. Instead, it will simply fill the air with smoke, first granting concealment, and later total concealment to anything beyond one square. And with another Spear Gauntlet trap in the room, this endangers both sides equally.

 

[Corvinus]

To mix things up, I drew a 50x50 battlefield by hand with lots of collapsed walls, rubble, and other ruins.

As the PC's entered this part of the ruined landscape, they were fired upon by elite spectral archers (adjusted phantom warriors with the ranger template). I gave the elites powers intended to slow, immobilize, and otherwise root the onrushing PC's as the monsters fought a delaying action.

In a gigantic 50x50 area with ruins where the ghosts could simply shift through ruined walls and rubble while the PC's had to vault obstacles, climb obstacles, and run along the tops of obstacles to charge down their foes while being turned into pincushions, it turned into an epic fight.

Mix in story elements where the ghosts are elite skirmishers haunting the ruins, condemned to re-fight the same desperate delaying action against an oncoming army for eternity, and it was rather fun.

The players naturally whined about the enormity of the challenge when they first realized what they were being presented with, but really got into it as the combat went on. The dual-wielding ninja ranger especially loved all of the acrobatics and athletics checks for vaulting obstacles, balancing as he ran at full speed along the top of obstacles, and jumped around.

Overall, the party covered a LOT of space as they ran around the field, chasing the spectral skirmishers - who always tried to keep their distance where they could, using their ability to phase through walls and find new cover to their advantage.

Archer-based ranger templates also made the combat a SERIOUS challenge, given their sheer damage output. It was definitely a combat that seriously tested the party.

A lot of fun.