Paladin Hospitaler vs Beholder Death Tyrant

[DracoSuave]

The ability is defeatable by an eye tyrant, and without much difficulty. Daze the paladin, send him off to charge an ally, then back out of the paladin's charge range. DC wears off, you're in the clear to massively harm his buddies. A dazed paladin can either attack you, move close to you, or DC you. Once you shrug off his DC, he literally -cannot- renew it.

Consider the Hospitaler's broken tech defeated.

With a minor action.

 

[Trebor62]

I just checked the Eye Tyrant out on the Compendium and the free attack is from an Aura. I don't think the Hospitlar free healing would apply as the Aura is allowing the free random eye stalk attack at start of each characters turn if they are within the Aura, i.e. the Beholder is granted the action by the Aura as opposed to taken the action itself.

Other creatures such as the Mad Wraith (MM) do automatic damage or an effect. These Aura powers would clearly not trigger the Hospitlars healing as no attack was made even though damage was incurred by those within the Aura.

Hope this helps.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I just checked the Eye Tyrant out on the Compendium and the free attack is from an Aura. I don't think the Hospitlar free healing would apply as the Aura is allowing the free random eye stalk attack at start of each characters turn if they are within the Aura, i.e. the Beholder is granted the action by the Aura as opposed to taken the action itself.

Other creatures such as the Mad Wraith (MM) do automatic damage or an effect. These Aura powers would clearly not trigger the Hospitlars healing as no attack was made even though damage was incurred by those within the Aura.

The eye ray aura still provides regular attacks. Any action with an attack roll is an attack.

 

[Trebor62]

The Aura for the Eye Tyrant happens to use the eye stalks which happen to be attacks. The Mad Wraith and other Aura's do flat damage or effects which are clearly not attacks. The key is the action in question is the Aura not how the Aura makes it self felt. Yes it is hair splitting but it would address the Eye Tyrants problem with the Hospitlars power. Otherwise the Eye Tyrant would be better off not making use of its Aura power in the presence of a Hospitlar.

 

[Fedifensor]

The ability is defeatable by an eye tyrant, and without much difficulty. Daze the paladin, send him off to charge an ally, then back out of the paladin's charge range. DC wears off, you're in the clear to massively harm his buddies. A dazed paladin can either attack you, move close to you, or DC you. Once you shrug off his DC, he literally -cannot- renew it.

Consider the Hospitaler's broken tech defeated.

With a minor action.

Unless you miss the paladin, or the paladin has something to attack you with at range (half-elf with Versatile Mastery and Eyebite, dragonborn with Hurl Breath, or even Quick Draw and a ranged weapon).

 

[Trebor62]

The MM discribes Aura as passive abilities and effects. Just because an "attack roll" is being made it does not mean an attack has occured which is the case with the Beholder aura. Thus the Hospitlars power would not be triggered by the Aura.

 

[DracoSuave]

Unless you miss the paladin, or the paladin has something to attack you with at range (half-elf with Versatile Mastery and Eyebite, dragonborn with Hurl Breath, or even Quick Draw and a ranged weapon).

If you miss a paladin with a minor action, then you've got another minor action before you've touched your standard action or your action points. Which a solo has. And no, you shouldn't -auto hit-. That's not the point, is it? But if you hit often enough, with a power that has +3 to hit over the other powers -AND- targets a NAD, it'll do the damage you need it to do. Really.

These other things you mention are counterable with the beholder's -standard- action.

Fact is, a beholder is a controller, and should be using his control to... well... control the things that make life hard for him, like, say, a paladin who can heal everyone ad nauseum. How intellegent does a monster have to be to go 'That holy guy over there is healing this entire group of future slaves and saving them from my blasts of superiority. Maybe I should focus my fire on him. Maybe I should hold off on doing the things that heal his friends. Maybe I should -shut that guy down-.'

Hey, did you know the beholder can shut that aura off as a minor action?

All I hear is 'Ability too strong! Ability too strong!' and not enough 'But the monster countered with this....'

The broken part of the paladin-hospitaler combo, in this instance, from what I hear, is that the DM didn't bother to play the monster in response to it, and did not attempt to use the abilities available to shut the 'problem' player down.

An eye tyrant has the tools to deal with this situation. Period. Use them. Complaining that the player is broken when it is clear that you did not use the tools -designed to handle situations like this- is like a rogue complaining about his poor damage output because -he never bothers to flank.-

 

[DracoSuave]

The MM discribes Aura as passive abilities and effects. Just because an "attack roll" is being made it does not mean an attack has occured which is the case with the Beholder aura. Thus the Hospitlars power would not be triggered by the Aura.

Actually, the aura has you make an attack with an attack power that you have. While in some countries it might not be true, in these parts, making an attack counts as making an attack.

So to recap:

The Beholder gets a free attack at the beginning of each character's turn.

Turn the aura off when the Beholder realizes what's going on.

On the beholder's turn, he can only take one attack against the marking paladin

Central Eye (minor; at-will)
Ranged 20; +25 vs. Will; the target is dazed until the end of the beholder’s next turn.

That's two things right there.

 

[Trebor62]

The Aura involves an attack roll but that does not make it an attack. Aura are passive effects. Attacks are active effects.

 

[DracoSuave]

The Aura involves an attack roll but that does not make it an attack. Aura are passive effects. Attacks are active effects.

The aura involves making an attack by using an attack power. Therefore is an attack.

Also, nothing in the rules states auras must be passive, nor are 'passive effects' and 'active effects' gamerule-relevant terms. The aura says you use an attack power, then you're -using an attack power- and therefore making an attack. The fact it didn't cost you an action is irrelevant.

Besides all that tho, you -can turn the aura off- if it's helping your enemies more than harming them. No rule says it must stay up the entire fight, or that it is always tacticly wise to do so.