4E, the Grind and Why I Play

[Spinachcat]

It saddens me though that for the first time in over 25 years, I find the current edition of D&D unplayable. This really sucks.

I have seen many similiar comments from other 35+ year olds and I am not surprised. The neurological capacity for learning diminishes as people age. Not for everyone, but certainly for most. It's not that grognards are stupid, not at all, but certainly human biology is playing a huge factor. You see it in the workplace all the time with the age gaps correlating to employee ability to adjust to new technology.

I know the easy thing is to blame 4e, but I have seen pre-teens and teenagers quickly grasp the game and not have the gameplay problems of older gamers.

Fortunately, studies have shown that older people can grasp new concepts just fine, but the learning curve does not come as naturally as before and now requires more attention, focus and effort.

 

[DaveMage]

I realize that I can play other games, including Pathfinder and older editions of D&D. However, I really want to support the current edition of D&D. I could also houserule the current edition I suppose. It saddens me though that for the first time in over 25 years, I find the current edition of D&D unplayable. This really sucks. To make matters worse, I am a voracious consumer of PDFs and WotC's recent actions have not set well with me.

I simply stayed with 3.5, but if you don't want to check out Pathfinder in August, then do what others have suggested and check out the various house rules that have made 4E better for a number of people that have had similar issues. Rel has a mega-thread somewhere around here where he changed the things that annoyed him about the new edition and made it better for his group.

 

[Herschel]

I find that 4E is the edition it is most important to play at first level. The powers structure and roles are pretty different from earlier editions that there aren't a bunch of experienced players to play along with and lean on while you learn. It's new for everyone.

This means that you discover how to use your at-wills, Encounter, Racial & Daily first. Then you can grab a Utility to accentuate your skills and/or retrain one you don't like. Character development is a progression of experimentation rather than a plotted course. As you build you not only become more efficient with the powers you have, but you understand better how they work and which things work well with them.

I find this has sped up combat greatly. I don't feel grind and find it mysterious that people do. Sure, some combats last longer but that's a positive feature. I'd grow pretty bored very quickly if every encounter were 'unload my encounter powers and maybe a daily and call it a win'. I like finding creative uses for my powers, including my at-wills, and have a blast.

Example: The PHB2 promo adventure. It was a solid adventure to play with characters designed by the players, would likely be much better with characters they'd played since first level, but was kind of a mess as presented because there were new classes, new powers and not many people had even played a Paragon Tier character yet and were used to all the power and combo choices from characters they'd played let alone new ones.

 

[AnthonyRoberson]

I have seen many similiar comments from other 35+ year olds and I am not surprised. The neurological capacity for learning diminishes as people age. Not for everyone, but certainly for most. It's not that grognards are stupid, not at all, but certainly human biology is playing a huge factor...

NOW I see the problem. I'm just a senile old fool!

 

[Somebloke]

Well, I have been running 4th ed. Strangely enough it was a campaign I had run for 3rd ed.

I have to say- I like this edition. Some things still bug me (the lack of non-combat foci you can give your player- I really, really love Saga for doing the opposite) and I had to houserule and keep a really close eye on encounter design to deal with grind (thank you very much, all those people on this forum who's ideas I have stolen and whos names I can't recall).

But in many ways I prefer it to 3.5- the fighter design, the way the DM's job is sooooooo much easier, the wealth of tactical choices for low/no magic users...this is an edition with flaws, but still quite fun.

And I cannot agree with any statement that claims that the classes function the same. There is a dramatic difference in the fighting style between our shield fighter and our two-weapon ranger alone.

 

[SolitonMan]

NOW I see the problem. I'm just a senile old fool!

Yeah, as a person who falls into that 35+ category, I had the same thought when I read Spinachcat's post. But it's true, learning gets tougher as we get older.

I've dabbled with 4e but it hasn't caught my imagination. I started playing in a campaign with KotS, but after two sessions I was just not into it. I find that I personally don't care for the combat roles. While you can see that such roles have been part of the game for years, to me it just feels like something that had been addressed organically on a unique basis by each individual group is now something forced.

But I'll be the first to admit that I haven't given 4e a REAL try. Dabbling is all I've done. Part of the reason is that the PHB was a snoozefest, and this tired old brain of mine (<-- per Spinachcat ) had much difficulty attempting to get through it while awake. Mostly though, I'm just not done with 3.5. There are options and classes and combos I've been wanting to try for years, and it's not likely I'll get anywhere near them anytime soon. The things that are problematic really don't bug me too much. I enjoy monkeying about with both PC and NPC stats, even if the end result is basically useless in play.

I'm guessing I'll be ready to try 4e about the time 5e comes along. (Assuming I don't get into HERO System by then, in which case that may become my system of choice, if what I've read so far hold through in actual play...)

Wait, what was I writing about? (wanders off mumbling...)

 

[TheNovaLord]

gotta agree with the OP

it seems that classes are......you have +11 bonus and do [w] damage and an affect...isnt that sweet cos so does my charcater and so does his....

Seems a lack of variety, especially in utility and 'difference' and feel. spells just dont feel like spells anymore

Its a shame as they fixed so many things

if it helps to dismiss me i am a 40+ year old fart who has been playing for 25 years

 

[Grimstaff]

I hope you can forgive a doddering old gamer his grouchy complaining. Now I just need to find that old pink D20...

Are you looking for good ways to improve your 4E game or just looking to complain? If the former, you may enjoy my Brutal 4E houserule. As a predominantly old-school gamer (Swords & Wizardry FTW!), this houserule fits my "gaming sensabilities" a bit better, and may do the same for you as well. 4E is its own game, but like every edition so far, imo at least, the best fit comes through customization!

If just looking to complain, are there any other editions or RPGs you'd like to complain about? How about RIFTS? Or MERP? I'm sure there's plenty of "non-traditional-D&D" games to rail against. Here, you can borrow my soapbox.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I know the easy thing is to blame 4e, but I have seen pre-teens and teenagers quickly grasp the game and not have the gameplay problems of older gamers.

And what about the young whippersnappers who don't find 4E to be to thier taste?

Liking or not liking a given rules design isn't really age related. Now get off my lawn!

 

[Kwalish Kid]

First, all the classes basically functioned the same. Pick a power. Use a power.

With this statement, I cannot take anything the author writes seriously.