Monk Preview

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Multiclassing is a fairly lukewarm set of mechanical options, so utilizing it as a solution to something that could just as easily be baked in to a class is pretty unappealing. I guess I could see it for the manaball, but whipping shurikens is inherently a monky option.

And again, I entreat WotC to keep the ki power source in lieu of the psionic power source, rather than vice versa.

I won't go into a discussion on MCing here, but I disagree and think that people have not explored it enough yet because of its feat cost.

I was replying to the manaball part, not the shurikens. But were shurikens really a main part of the monk repretoire? IME monks threw shuriken about as often as the greatsword-wielding-fighter used his longbow. IOW, only when he had to.

As for ki vs. psionics, I prefer psionics. It encompasses more ground than ki. I don't see ki users taking mental dominion over an enemy. But I do see psionic users buffing their combat ability (psychic warrior, soulblade, Shadowrun's physical adepts [I know, not technically psionic, but closer to psionic than ki]). Plus, psionics has been a part of D&D longer than any in-game concept of ki has been. And I believe for the first time in 4E psionics won't be an arguably-broken subsystem of the game that drove some people away from it in previous editions.

 

[balard]

WotC, please, hear the feedback. Hadouken was the most homebrew thing stuffed into monks. Throw him a bone a let him fireball from day one.

If they are smart, they cram as mush Street Fighter moves in the powers as they can. Hurricane Kick make a neat Daily power(as in hit, push, shift, hit, push, shift... any here played the Street Fighter RPG?)

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Why is it there are so many strikers, and those seem to be the most popular and fun classes? Hmf. I think it leads to a desire for an ALL STRIKER PARTY WOO.

ALL STRIKER PARTY WOO!

Rogue!
Monk!
Avenger!
Ranger!
Sorceror!
Barbarian!
Warlock!

All battles over in 5 rounds or less... one way or the other, anyway...

 

[chaotix42]

WotC, please, hear the feedback. Hadouken was the most homebrew thing stuffed into monks. Throw him a bone a let him fireball from day one.

If they are smart, they cram as mush Street Fighter moves in the powers as they can. Hurricane Kick make a neat Daily power(as in hit, push, shift, hit, push, shift... any here played the Street Fighter RPG?)

Tatsumaki Senpukyaku is pretty much in there already as Three Winds Kick (17th lvl encounter power). It fits perfectly.

I will also take a Hadouken as an at-will power.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Tatsumaki Senpukyaku is pretty much in there already as Three Winds Kick (17th lvl encounter power). It fits perfectly.

I noticed that right away, but remember there's also hybrid classing at the moment. A fireball is a little out there for what the monk is now, but they could get a ranged push attack which would match the feel of the monk better.

 

[Felon]

I won't go into a discussion on MCing here, but I disagree and think that people have not explored it enough yet because of its feat cost.

That it costs a feat just to do a one-for-one swap-out of powers, which in many cases, uses ability scores aren't your best (making it an uneven swap)? Yep, that's one problem. That 11th level paragon paths bestow a bevy of abilities on a character while paragon multi-classing doesn't is another clear inequity.

Plus, psionics has been a part of D&D longer than any in-game concept of ki has been. And I believe for the first time in 4E psionics won't be an arguably-broken subsystem of the game that drove some people away from it in previous editions.

There's a certain value to preserving legacy concepts, but it is pretty finite IMO. It's akin to the concept of "needless symmetry" that 4e boldly reined in. Psionics in D&D is one of those loose screws from an era of D&D that incorporated a lot of esoterica. Anyone remember the Boot Hill sections in the core 1e books?

 

[Jack99]

That 11th level paragon paths bestow a bevy of abilities on a character while paragon multi-classing doesn't is another clear inequity.

I wonder if it might be possible to create a set of abilities/bonus that would work as a bonus for anyone who picks up paragon multi-classing.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

That it costs a feat just to do a one-for-one swap-out of powers, which in many cases, uses ability scores aren't your best (making it an uneven swap)? Yep, that's one problem. That 11th level paragon paths bestow a bevy of abilities on a character while paragon multi-classing doesn't is another clear inequity.

The cost of the feat gives your character versatility.

Making your character MAD when you choose non-synergous classes has been an issue since point-buy became the prevalent means of generating ability scores and your class's abilities actually keyed off your prime stat. A fighter/caster in previous editions needed a good Str/Con/Dex and a good Int/Wis/Cha (maybe less so as we go back in editions). There are still utilities that require no attack roll that you could pick up that could synergize well with a character concept you have in mind.

Paragon Multiclassing isn't needed. You can retrain lower level powers picked up through multiclassing as you gain in levels to access higher level powers from your chosen multiclass while still gaining access to your PP powers. And you now have more PPs available to you because you multiclassed (and you gain this benefit with the very first feat which most agree is worth the cost).

So, I disagree and I think people are still too shocked by the "sticker price" to look into how multiclassing in 4E can benefit their character or its concept without automatically screwing themselves. Once I get a chance to get out from behind the DM screen I plan to prove my theory to my players.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

There's a certain value to preserving legacy concepts, but it is pretty finite IMO. It's akin to the concept of "needless symmetry" that 4e boldly reined in. Psionics in D&D is one of those loose screws from an era of D&D that incorporated a lot of esoterica. Anyone remember the Boot Hill sections in the core 1e books?

Yep. That and Gamma World. It was fun. My players and I still remember playing Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Dungeonland, and Land Beyond the Magic Mirror. Quirky stuff that made the game a blast. We used 1E psionics too!

Then the game got all serious and stuff. And we started to realize how broken and unfun (to us) some stuff was. But I still like psionics and there is a larger fanbase for it than Asian settings if 3E WotC releases are any indicator. So I have been waiting for a version of psionics that doesn't push at the boundaries of brokenness and I'm confident 4E will deliver that. I like Asian-themed play too, but I don't see the need for a power source built on that theme.

 

[Leatherhead]

The cost of the feat gives your character versatility.

Versatility vs. Power has never been that great of a dichotomy for balance.