Wish

[Nebulous]

You know, now that i think about it, Wish in 4e should be completely removed as a spell or ritual in the PHB and relegated to something like an artifact in the DMG. It is a story tool, something so rare and powerful that a campaign could revolve around it. Creating a kingdom, changing reality, turning back time before a catastrosphic event. I would even go so far as to argue that Wish and Limited Wish SHOULD be in D&D, but the reins need to be tightened and given fully to the DM, not the whim of characters who just say, "Um, we all resurrect over there if things go sour." Which i've seen happen.

Of course, potential for abuse still exists, but i think a small chapter in the DMG or a Dungeon article would cover it quite nicely.

 

[Ryujin]

Even the "Um, we all resurrect over there if things go sour." could make for a good story. If Character X dies, then trigger "Groundhog Day" story arc.

 

[Nebulous]

Even the "Um, we all resurrect over there if things go sour." could make for a good story. If Character X dies, then trigger "Groundhog Day" story arc.

Oh, i agree. But i've seen it happen as an afterthought in 1e, like a videogame Quick Load. A Dungeon article could really go into depth as to how DMs could adjudicate such decisions. Groundhog Day would be awesome. Or bringing them back as the undead with a Quest to return to life.

 

[Rel]

I'll only say that I think that Wish works best as a plot device rather than a codified game mechanic.

 

[Ryujin]

Oh, i agree. But i've seen it happen as an afterthought in 1e, like a videogame Quick Load. A Dungeon article could really go into depth as to how DMs could adjudicate such decisions. Groundhog Day would be awesome. Or bringing them back as the undead with a Quest to return to life.

"Hey Doug! You dropped something."

"Yeah, that's my left ear. Been losing it all day."

 

[Wolfwood2]

This reminds me of one of the old time D&D players, Ryk Spoor (went by the handle of Sea Wasp) who used to post on the usenet D&D forums. He used to talk about a power level chart that he had developed for wishes that clarified what each wish could do, depending on the source.

So a wish from a minor fae spirit in the forest might not be able to accomplish much more than a prestidigitation. A wish from one of the Lords of Hell might be able to grant any resource or enhancement Hell could provide, but could not take away any soul's free will. At the top of the list the limits were basically, "Tell the DM what you want to happen and he will rewrite the game world." I recall a story where his players got their hands on such a wish and were seriously considering, "I wish all the bad people were good," and it would have worked.

So definitely in the realm of plot device and a potential campaign ender if the wish is powerful enough, but that's part of the fun.

 

[Nebulous]

This reminds me of one of the old time D&D players, Ryk Spoor (went by the handle of Sea Wasp) who used to post on the usenet D&D forums. He used to talk about a power level chart that he had developed for wishes that clarified what each wish could do, depending on the source.

So a wish from a minor fae spirit in the forest might not be able to accomplish much more than a prestidigitation. A wish from one of the Lords of Hell might be able to grant any resource or enhancement Hell could provide, but could not take away any soul's free will. At the top of the list the limits were basically, "Tell the DM what you want to happen and he will rewrite the game world." I recall a story where his players got their hands on such a wish and were seriously considering, "I wish all the bad people were good," and it would have worked.

So definitely in the realm of plot device and a potential campaign ender if the wish is powerful enough, but that's part of the fun.

That's excellent. Scrap spell level, ritual level, artifact level, etc. Incorporate a Wish into all tiers of play with examples of how it will/could change the campaign. I think this approach to "wishful thinking" could easily integrate into 4e and make it the best use of the spell in any edition.

 

[Obryn]

I'll only say that I think that Wish works best as a plot device rather than a codified game mechanic.

This was what I was going to say, but Rel got to it first.

So, I hate him now.

-O

 

[Rel]

This was what I was going to say, but Rel got to it first.

So, I hate him now.

-O

I had assumed that you hated me long before now.

 

[Obryn]

I had assumed that you hated me long before now.

Sigh.

This was what I was going to say, but Rel got to it first.

So, I hate him more now.

-O

FIFM.

-O