Entering a Zone

[Branduil]

There are numerous spells which create zones with damaging or hindering effects. Many of them state something to the effect of "If a creature enters the zone OR starts their turn inside of it, they take xdx+x damage."

What is the correct interpretation of "entering the zone?" Is it strictly literal, in the sense that it only causes damage if the creature is the one who moves into it? Does it cause damage if the zone moves over the creature, so that the creature "enters" the zone? And what about forced movement? If I cast a spell which pushes a creature 4 squares, can I push the creature in a zig-zag line, such that they repeatedly enter and exit the zone, and thus receive the damage multiple times?

 

[keterys]

Not when the zone is moved over the creature, but otherwise yep - walk, pushed, zig-zagged, it all triggers.

There are some good possible house rules there, but eh.

 

[isd]

There are numerous spells which create zones with damaging or hindering effects. Many of them state something to the effect of "If a creature enters the zone OR starts their turn inside of it, they take xdx+x damage."

What is the correct interpretation of "entering the zone?" Is it strictly literal, in the sense that it only causes damage if the creature is the one who moves into it? Does it cause damage if the zone moves over the creature, so that the creature "enters" the zone? And what about forced movement? If I cast a spell which pushes a creature 4 squares, can I push the creature in a zig-zag line, such that they repeatedly enter and exit the zone, and thus receive the damage multiple times?

A creature would take the damage if
1. They moved into the zone.
2. The Zone moved over them. (I think but am not sure)
3. They were in the Zone when it was first created. (I think but am not sure)
4. If they are force to move into the zone.
5. On "zig-zag" I think most force movement is one directional. That being said if you did find a way to move a creature into a zone multiple times I would personally love it and say yes they take the damage. However the mechanics DO NOT support multiple "entering the zone" hits. The people I play D&D with and I take the flavor above the rules because we enjoy playing that way so I'd just say yes.

 

[Lauberfen]

Like Keterys said.

Note that you could only zig-zag on the straight with a push or pull.
I'm pretty sure any DM (me included) would rule that moving a creature in and out with one action would not trigger it multiple times. The rules seem to be written to avoid doing multiple damage for a creature walking through several affected squares (henze talking about the whole zone not each square), and ruling against zig-zagging would fit well with this.

 

[pauljathome]

Nobody (including WOTC) seems to know. Different answers from different sources. And WOTC seemingly refuses to address this officially.

For what its worth, for our group
1) It only counts if the creature moves, not if the zone moves.
2) You only take the damage from the zone once a turn even if pushed in/out
3) Forced movement definitely counts as entering the zone
4) The creature does NOT get a saving throw to drop prone before entering the zone

 

[Plane Sailing]

I have found that allowing literally when a creature starts its turn in the zone or moves into the zone works well.

I don't allow it when something else 'moves it into' the zone, and especially wouldn't allow 'zig-zagging' someone through the zone to do more damage. This is both from a game balance perspective (cuts out abusive situations where humongous amounts of damage are done), a logical perspective (more damage from spending some time in a zone rather than a whole round in it?!?).

if a wizard thunderwaves a foe into a zone, then it will probably be taking damage at the start of its turn because it is in the zone (except for the circumstance where it has a leader that is able to move it out-of-turn, which is pretty rare overall). Taking damage when it was thunderwaved in and then again when it starts its turn seems like double-dipping at the damage well.

This is the results of my experience, and what I think works well. I offer it for comparative purposes only, no warranty implied etc. etc.

 

[FrozenChrono]

I have found that allowing literally when a creature starts its turn in the zone or moves into the zone works well.

I don't allow it when something else 'moves it into' the zone, and especially wouldn't allow 'zig-zagging' someone through the zone to do more damage. This is both from a game balance perspective (cuts out abusive situations where humongous amounts of damage are done), a logical perspective (more damage from spending some time in a zone rather than a whole round in it?!?).

if a wizard thunderwaves a foe into a zone, then it will probably be taking damage at the start of its turn because it is in the zone (except for the circumstance where it has a leader that is able to move it out-of-turn, which is pretty rare overall). Taking damage when it was thunderwaved in and then again when it starts its turn seems like double-dipping at the damage well.

This is the results of my experience, and what I think works well. I offer it for comparative purposes only, no warranty implied etc. etc.

Are you aware of the hindering Terrain rules?

As per page 44 of the DMG, a creature is entitled to a saving throw if you use forced movement to put it into Hindering Terrain.

Hindering terrain is defined on page 61 of DMG as "Hindering terrain prevents movement (or severely punishes it) or damages creatures that enter it, but allows line of sight." with the examples "Pits, deep water, lava, fire."

I agree with the general consensus on the zigzag issue, but there is a difference between entering a zone and moving into a zone. A lot of zones wouldn't hurt enemies getting force moved into them anyway, and the ones that do damage on forced movement the monster has a 45% chance of not getting pushed into. That seems fair and balanced to me.

-So to answer the OP's questions.

-Entering the zone is literal, there are many times where the wording will be moves into the zone. Moves means voluntary movement, enter means any kind.

-Strictly RAW zigzag cheese works, however . . .

-Every time an enemy is force moved into hindering terrain (pg44 DMG) they get a saving throw, if they succeed they are left prone in the square before they would have entered the terrain. So each in and out would technically risk the enemy not being in the zone at the beginning of their turn.

 

[Runestar]

Zig-zagging isn't all that rare, when you realize that the powers which push a foe simply require the foe to move further away from you (which is still possible to manage in a zig-zag manner). No mention is made anywhere about the movement having to be in a straight line.

It is probably less efficient though (eg: if I wanted to use a power such as thunderwave, I may as well push the foe as far away as possible, instead of having him go back and forth around the same area). The only real use is if you allow multiple damage to be dealt for leaving and entering a zone. Else, I don't see it being used much.

Here is something I found on another site related to this. None of you will probably allow this, but it is still very hilarious.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2664339841_9d7f9c9fc9_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2664339841_9d7f9c9fc9_o.jpg

 

[the Jester]

Heh... at the moment, my thinking on this is that the zone deals damage to a creature when:

1. it starts its turn in the zone [most of the arguable points here are cleared up the PH discussion of the ready and delay actions]; or
2. it moves into the zone [I define this loosely as "whenever it moves in or is moved into the zone, but not when the zone is moved over the creature"; as to zig-zagging, at the moment I think I'd allow multiple instances of damage only if different effects moved the creature into the zone. It other words, the thunderwave diagram would only get the monster once, but you could damage a target twice by knocking it through the wall of fire with a thunderwave and then pushing it back in with a tide of iron.]

 

[Branduil]

Are you aware of the hindering Terrain rules?



I agree with the general consensus on the zigzag issue, but there is a difference between entering a zone and moving into a zone. A lot of zones wouldn't hurt enemies getting force moved into them anyway, and the ones that do damage on forced movement the monster has a 45% chance of not getting pushed into. That seems fair and balanced to me.

-So to answer the OP's questions.

-Entering the zone is literal, there are many times where the wording will be moves into the zone. Moves means voluntary movement, enter means any kind.

-Strictly RAW zigzag cheese works, however . . .

-Every time an enemy is force moved into hindering terrain (pg44 DMG) they get a saving throw, if they succeed they are left prone in the square before they would have entered the terrain. So each in and out would technically risk the enemy not being in the zone at the beginning of their turn.

A zone is not terrain, however.