How do you handle Magic Circle in your game?

[Regicide]

Is that a house rule, and if not whats the source?

It's a fallback to the fact that the DM can do anything. It's not stated in the MM that they have extra powers outside of combat, it's merely the mantra that's been adopted in response to the fact that many of the more interesting monsters have had a lot of detail removed from their write ups in the new edition.

So basically people complained that monsters in 4E are cardboard cutouts, and the response was "well it's up to the DM to do all the work of actually giving them abilities." It's not explicity stated, it's just something that a DM will need to do because there are gapeing holes in the material.

For instance Vecna doesn't have access to wizard spells in or out of combat, which, given his background, is ridiculous. Instead he's nowhere near as good as an archmage should be, heck, an apprentice casts magic missle better, he just has some weird abilities and a sack of HPs far greater than a player's instead.

If, as a DM, you want a Vecna that doesn't feel like a cardboard cutout, you have a lot of work ahead of you. "For a being of godly intelligence and power, Vecna’s tactics are fairly simple."

 

[bganon]

Has anyone asked for a clarification on the Magic Circle vs. Teleport issue? It keeps coming up.

But I think the weakness of Magic Circle comes down to the ease of obscuring the runes. And while it's not clear what counts as "affecting" creatures through the circle, I think a reasonable rule is that stuff that doesn't interfere with a creature's free will is OK. So Orcus could still talk to people through the circle, offering them immortality if they'll just scuff it for a moment...

Even if you don't allow that much, it's hard for me to imagine large (town-sized) circles as lasting long enough to be worth the effort. Any idiot can come along and ruin the thing in seconds.

 

[Flipguarder]

I cant believe I said Orcus before, Tarrasque is a much more reasonable problematic adversary against this spell.

What I mean is, very few people will be jerks enough to screw up a magic circle surrounding a small town to protect against the Tarrasque.

Tarrasque knows no language so it cant ask for help. No teleport ability. And all you need is a wizard of paragon level and a few helpers. Maybe a ritual candle...

Its just stupidly powerful I think

 

[Saeviomagy]

I cant believe I said Orcus before, Tarrasque is a much more reasonable problematic adversary against this spell.

What I mean is, very few people will be jerks enough to screw up a magic circle surrounding a small town to protect against the Tarrasque.

Tarrasque knows no language so it cant ask for help. No teleport ability. And all you need is a wizard of paragon level and a few helpers. Maybe a ritual candle...

Its just stupidly powerful I think

If your DM introduces a tarrasque into the campaign, one would hope that he goes the extra mile to reflect societies response to it.

Tarrasque cultists, villains manipulating it, other creatures of the same origin wanting to live in the city (or mess with the city) etc etc.

The magic circle might repel the first assault, but it's going to take some effort to keep it up.

(incidentally: a wasteland with numerous tarrasques and every city and encampment hiding under a magic circle bubble is a brilliant points of light setting, even if it's just for a certain season every year/decade/whatnot).

 

[Regicide]

But I think the weakness of Magic Circle comes down to the ease of obscuring the runes. And while it's not clear what counts as "affecting" creatures through the circle, I think a reasonable rule is that stuff that doesn't interfere with a creature's free will is OK. So Orcus could still talk to people through the circle, offering them immortality if they'll just scuff it for a moment...

The Spiderwick Chronicles had a good example of a magic circle in it! Saddly, no tarrasques.

 

[satori01]

What I mean is, very few people will be jerks enough to screw up a magic circle surrounding a small town

This strikes me as a straw man argument. Of course the world abounds with said "jerks"; whom else is one fighting while adventuring.

Duergar, Drow, Mind Flayers, things that live in the Feywild, things that live in the Shadowfell, things that live in the Abyss, things that live in the Elemental Chaos, Underground Dwarven Kingdoms at war with surface lands, insane cultist of Entropy, people beliving in the Great Hunt of them all so on and so forth....pretty much most of the MM1 and MM2.

Also as rituals are bit vague by design.....it would not be unreasonable for some to use a ritual like say Control Weather to create a downpour that would wash away any chalk made circles.

 

[Flipguarder]

If your DM introduces a tarrasque into the campaign, one would hope that he goes the extra mile to reflect societies response to it.

Tarrasque cultists, villains manipulating it, other creatures of the same origin wanting to live in the city (or mess with the city) etc etc.

The magic circle might repel the first assault, but it's going to take some effort to keep it up.

(incidentally: a wasteland with numerous tarrasques and every city and encampment hiding under a magic circle bubble is a brilliant points of light setting, even if it's just for a certain season every year/decade/whatnot).

I can see it now:

At the entrance of a large city an army of cultists face the gathering crowd, the Tarrasque sleeping on a colossal wagon with some of the cultists surrounding it and chanting


High level Tarrasque priest:"In a matter of moments, the tarrasque will awaken and DESTROY YOU ALL!"

-another cultist comes up to the priest and mumbles something in his ear.

Priest:"DAMMIT!"

-priest looks around

Priest: "Jim, go over there and scuff those runes for me"

-low level cultist runs amusingly towards the runes surrounding the city and kicks them as though destroying a small sandcastle. Then turns around and gives the Priest a thumbs-up

Priest: "NOW the Tarrasque will DESTROY YOU ALL!"

 

[Flipguarder]

This strikes me as a straw man argument. Of course the world abounds with said "jerks"; whom else is one fighting while adventuring.

Duergar, Drow, Mind Flayers, things that live in the Feywild, things that live in the Shadowfell, things that live in the Abyss, things that live in the Elemental Chaos, Underground Dwarven Kingdoms at war with surface lands, insane cultist of Entropy, people beliving in the Great Hunt of them all so on and so forth....pretty much most of the MM1 and MM2.

Also as rituals are bit vague by design.....it would not be unreasonable for some to use a ritual like say Control Weather to create a downpour that would wash away any chalk made circles.

yes sure there are jerks

But thats almost irrelevant. One of the most physically destructive forcees in the know universe can be physically stopped by a low level ritual, end of story. That in and of itself is ridiculous imo.

 

[satori01]

yes sure there are jerks

But thats almost irrelevant. One of the most physically destructive forcees in the know universe can be physically stopped by a low level ritual, end of story. That in and of itself is ridiculous imo.

I do not want this to come off as too harsh, or bearing any sort of malice or animosity, (this post has none)...but Flip what you have is a personal problem.

You find some bit of flavor personally incongruous and it offends you...but alas this comes down to just taste, and is a singular phenomenon.

I myself find nothing wrong with an embodiment of Physical Destruction, being impeded by an Extra Physical, supernatural force like magic.

Honestly Magic Circle gives a pretty compelling game set up for say a 12th level encounter with the Tarrasque. Something, someone, has awoken the big bad toothy monster and it is coming to eat the town. The heroes of course can not defeat the Tarrasque....but they have just enough time to try to create a Magic Circle to save as many of the townspeople, as they can (like 2 hours).

Sophie's Choice meets Shindler's List, (the Circle is life), and a great cinematic scene of the lucky few wailing and watching in disbelief as the great physical engine of destruction lays waste to all around them, except for one small circle of calm. I'd pay $8 to watch that movie !

Let us also face that the Tarrasque and Orcus are not going to appear on any wandering monster table of 4e.....Paragon level encounter with 30 level creatures, really should not have battle as normal on the agenda, as TPK will be the only result.

Unique monsters are plot devices, and thus the rules, (even limiting rules ), allow for some great inspiration on uses of those plot devices.

 

[Abisashi]

Is that a house rule, and if not whats the source?

It's implied, but never stated that I could find. However, I think the designers explicitly said that was their intent (though I also can't confirm this).

In general, its impractical for the rules to cover every eventuality, though personally I wish a little more complexity had gone into the design of rituals like this one, with hard level cut-offs in their power.