Previews for September and Beyond

[Derren]

Derren, we've been around the block many, many times on this. It's the same reason an Ogre might be an Elite to a low-level character, a standard monster at mid-levels, and a minion with 1 hp at high levels.

The ogre is not actually getting weaker. Neither are the gold dragons. Their combat statistics - which are not actual descriptions of them, just descriptions of how they interact with PCs during combat - change based on the situation. In this case, their combat interaction in some insane fight vs. Bahamut makes it sensible for them to have these specific game stats. Out of that combat, they have whatever stats might be appropriate - most likely hugely powerful gold dragons.

Stats in 4e don't tell you anything other than how the monster performs in combats where the PCs are involved. I know you don't like this. You don't have to; nobody is making you like it. But every time this comes up, you put up exactly the same objections.

-O

Maybe you should read my posts better.
Its not a in combat / out of combat discussion, but a in combat with Bahamut / in combat without Bahamut thing.
Why would gold dragons be stronger fighters when they fight alone then when they fight at the side of their creator?
Yes, I know the answer. See Shazman's post.

 

[AllisterH]

Derren, seriously I got to ask...

Why do you even bother reading 4e threads? You dislike it intensely and I have once seen any indication that you would want to play it so why not only read the 3.5/Pathfinder threads?

 

[Logan_Bonner]

I don't think you're supposed to actually fight this guy. I think this stat block is fan service.

I'd say you're half right. There might be some important info missing from the preview.

 

[Njall]

Yes, I know the answer. See Shazman's post.

Maybe, or maybe not. There's a ton of reasons that could justify it in-game: for example, you could assume that there's some sort of "summoning sickness" when Bahamut turns the canaries into dragons, or that they're not the actual Gold Wyrms, but just their avatars.
D&D is an rpg, and as such it's not so much the rules that make or break verosimilitude, but how you choose to interpret or narrate them.

 

[Obryn]

Maybe you should read my posts better.
Its not a in combat / out of combat discussion, but a in combat with Bahamut / in combat without Bahamut thing.
Why would gold dragons be stronger fighters when they fight alone then when they fight at the side of their creator?
Yes, I know the answer. See Shazman's post.

It's the same thing as an ogre being an elite at some levels, a standard at some others, and a minion at high levels. Exactly the same. It's situational statistics; a creature's stats aren't an absolute description of its abilities in the game world, only of their interaction with PCs in combat.

You most assuredly know this by now, and don't like it. And it's fine not to like it - I understand. But why ask the questions in every vaguely relevant 4e thread when you already know the answer, and know you won't like the answer? Just to create conflict?

-O

 

[avin]

I'd say you're half right. There might be some important info missing from the preview.

Or maybe he's not a 5 man but a 25 man heroic boss

 

[Shroomy]

The preview kind of explains why the recent "Deities & Demigods: Bahamut" article wasn't really centered on Bahamut, he's largely in Draconomicon II, which is what I suspected.

 

[Klaus]

I'd say you're half right. There might be some important info missing from the preview.

Here's my take:

Bahamut is Lawful Good. He is uncompromising. If the PCs needed, say, to free an old exarch of Tiamat to gain her help thwarting, say, Asmodeus, the Platinum Dragon would be against it. Vehemently against it. To the point where he'd have to knock some sense into those foolish mortals in the old-fashioned way.

 

[Eridanis]

Cut the sniping and get back on topic, please.

 

[Derren]

Okay, Revenge of the Giants preview.

What are unique items, especially in relation to artifacts?