D&D 4E 4E Class Survivor - Round 6

[Zinovia]

I've known plenty of people who like playing leaders, so it really must just depend on the particular tastes of the group. I think the cleric and other leaders are interesting classes that are fun to play. Being your own ally for some of those effects would certainly help out when it comes to buffing, but I guess they wanted to preserve some of the self-sacrificing "Oh don't mind me, I'm just here to help *you*!" aspect of being a healer type.

I don't think the results you're seeing here are representative because it's just too weird that *all* the leaders would be voted off so systematically. But then again, what do I know? I play a healer in WoW raids as well.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Edit: On second thought, controllers are more likely to go first. I think the Fighter will stick around for a while, and that's mainly because Fighters are really strikers in disguise.

If we count the lest amount of votes in the last 5 rounds, Fighters are the winners hands down.

 

[yesnomu]

So the end result of the buff is that everything stays the same, except for the leader, fow whom things are worse... and he paid for that.

Well, harder encounters should lead to more XP, which means faster leveling and therefore more treasure per session. It doesn't for many GMs that I play with, but strictly by the rules, being able to handle harder challenges is a good thing.

EDIT: Amusingly, Wardens are the only defenders I've seen played in the last 3-4 games I've been in--and Winter's Herald is a fantastic enough power for me to give them respect. I'm also confused as to why the Cleric got voted off; have the people who voted for it read Divine Power?

 

[Dausuul]

I'm not surprised leaders fell by the wayside. D&D has never really known what to do with leaders. 4E had some interesting ideas, but they all started with the proposition that "leader = healbot" and then tried to add pizzazz. As a result, leaders are now healbots with a lot of weird powers that don't make much sense.

The problem is the initial assumption that there should be such a thing as a dedicated healbot class. IMO, leaders should specialize in party-wide buffs, and they should work on the leader along with everyone else - in fact, they should work better on the leader. Meanwhile, remove healing from the portfolio of any one role and make it available to all via feats.

Also, death to wardens.

 

[lotuseater]

how does the warlock keep surviving???

 

[Dausuul]

how does the warlock keep surviving???

I think warlocks are holding on by pure fluff strength. The warlock concept is really cool, and the mechanics, while terminally underpowered, are well suited to the theme. This enables it to win against a class like the warden, which has a poorly-defined concept and whose mechanics are confusing and nonsensical - even though they might be better from a strict power-gaming perspective.

I doubt warlocks will last much longer, though. Once the filler classes are gone (the ones that were obviously added just to round out the complement of primal or divine classes - warden and invoker, I'm looking at you), and warlocks start facing competition from classes with comparable cool factor and decent power levels, they're toast.

I am a bit surprised that warlocks outlasted clerics. I would have thought the old-edition cachet of clerics would have given them a little more staying power... guess not.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Now that the Leaders are gone, I expect Swordmage/Invoker/Warden/Warlock to go next, in no particular order.

Still voting for the Warden. It's the one 4E class that I literally have no desire to play.

I will be sad when the 'lock goes, because of the fantastic flavor it represents, even though it is slightly underpowered. It's more like a single target controller. It was an interesting take, completely hoses solos with status riders, but falls significantly behind on the DPR races.

 

[Cadfan]

I wish I could vote to defend the warden!

I really like the guy. I know he's going to get kicked out, but, well, its a richly thematic class that's mechanically sound. The only failure I think it demonstrates is one of communication- I don't think the warden writeup really gets the idea across. I think an iconic character or a piece of short fiction would really help.

Seriously, while I know its too late to save the warden, those who voted against it should open up the character builder and throw together a goliath earthstrength warden with stone themed powers, or an elven wildblood warden with an animalistic theme. It really works.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Die warlock die!.

 

[hafrogman]

how does the warlock keep surviving???

I think warlocks are holding on by pure fluff strength. The warlock concept is really cool, and the mechanics, while terminally underpowered, are well suited to the theme.

They also have the benefit of being the only Constitution based class in the game, and from being quite awesome when built around Constitution, and just ignoring Charisma altogether.