How should we determine attributes?

[Crothian]

I'm starting up a new game come December and the players are currently working on their characters. I encourage them to create a character without mechanics first and then do the character sheet last. It's worked well for us in the past. Soon though they will be doing that and I need a way for them to do attributes. We've rolled dice, used point buy, and just picked our stats in the past. I'm not sure what to do this time, so EN World how should my players determine their character's attributes?

I'm not making this a poll because there are options I might not think of so please suggest whatever comes to mind.

 

[Wik]

Well, since they already have characters roughly in mind, I like this one:

Have all stats start at 8. Roll 10d4. Players assign the individual die results to the ability scores, keeping in mind that no score can go over 18 at this point. So, if you were making a fighter, and rolled 1,1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, and 4.... you could assign stats as follows:

Strength: 18 (8 + 2 + 4 + 4)
Constitution: 15 (8 + 2 + 2 + 3)
Dexterity: 11 (8 + 2 + 1)
Intelligence: 10 (8 + 1 + 1)
Wisdom: 8
Charisma: 8

it's a fun system, and a joy to play around with.

I also like assign 24d6 among your 6 abilities, with each ability requiring at least 3d6. Roll the dice, keeping the three highest results. So, our fighter could look like:

Strength: 6d6 (final roll wound up being 15)
Constitution: 5d6 (13 final roll)
Dexterity: 4d6 (11 final roll)
Intelligence: 3d6 (6 final roll)
Wisdom: 3d6 (14 final roll)
Charisma: 3d6 (10 final roll)

Which is a fun system, and creates some oddball characters that are usually at least sort of close to what the Players want (but still with some of those weird little quirks that characters will get from time to time).

 

[kaomera]

I encourage them to create a character without mechanics first and then do the character sheet last.

If you think it might work, you can simply have them record whatever scores they want. Most players like being challenged (or at the very least the illusion of challenge), and should be willing to put aside any tendencies to power-grab / min-max.

 

[Treebore]

The current favored method is 10+2d4+/- racial mods among my groups.

 

[fba827]

if you have any players that are particularly sensitive to equality in stats, how about you (DM) pick 6 stats and the players take those same 6 stats and can assign them as needed (and then apply racial mods). Essentially, coming up with your own standard array for this set of characters.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

if you have any players that are particularly sensitive to equality in stats, how about you (DM) pick 6 stats and the players take those same 6 stats and can assign them as needed (and then apply racial mods). Essentially, coming up with your own standard array for this set of characters.

I think this is pretty much spot on and a tactic I've used in the past - although from memory I had closer to 20 options with a few extra goodies thrown in for choosing "second tier" distributions rather than "first tier" distributions. I assume from previous posting that you're playing 4e so you could offer bonus healing surges, a feat, training in a particular skill etc., different racial bonuses or campaign benefits such as bonus starting money or even a bonus at-will power for particular distributions. This allows your players to invest a little more into the process and gives them a few extra options and chance for differentiation from others.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Point Buy is the best, IMO.

If you must roll, I like what one of my DMs once did: Everyone rolls for stats using whatever method (4d6 drop the lowest; 5d6 drop 2 lowest, whatever) and the DM computes the average and then offers that as a point buy to anyone stuck with the low end. So then at least no one utterly sucks because of a bunch of one-off rolls. A funny consequence is that people who roll really well end up helping the group -- they raise the amount the lower half will get slightly.

Or...have them do a series of tests to determine their own ability scores...

 

[Theroc]

Or...have them do a series of tests to determine their own ability scores...

Hahaha, sorta like how Morrowind gave you a questionnaire to determine your class? (That setup in Morrowind was optional, but good for players who didn't worry about 'CharOp' and just wanted to jump in quick.)

 

[delericho]

I encourage them to create a character without mechanics first and then do the character sheet last.

If that's the order, then I'd recommend point buy (for 3e, 28 or 32 points, depending on campaign power level). Or, if you trust your players not to abuse it, just let them select their stats.

I've tried a whole bunch of creation methods over time, and have found, on balance, that point buy tends to give the most satisfying results (despite the min-maxing that seems to be an inevitable consequence). I've found that random rolls work well in theory, but always seem to end up with one PC having much better stats than the rest (and usually one with much worse stats as well).

(That said, the standard 4d6-drop-lowest does seem to work reasonably well, most of the time.)

One method I really like (but which is totally unsuited to your campaign) works as follows: The players roll 4d6 (drop lowest) seven times, and keep the results in order. They may then swap any two numbers around, and then drop one stat from the set, but have to use the resulting numbers in order. (The 'swap' and 'drop' steps can be done in either order.)

(So, a player might roll 9, 12, 15, 16, 8, 10 and 7. He can then swap any two numbers (for example, to get 16, 12, 15, 9, 8, 10, 7), and then drop one (to get 16, 12, 15, 9, 10, 7), but then has to use the numbers in order: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 7.)

However, the inability to order the stats as desired makes this method unsuitable for your use: the players are really going to need more control over which stat goes where to match up the mechanics of their characters with the concept.

Another method I experimented with, but ultimately discarded, was to use a set of playing cards with all the 7's though 10's and all the 'face cards' removed (leaving only the 1's through 6's). Each player would then shuffle the remaining cards and deal six hands of four cards each. In each hand you then discard the lowest value card, sum the rest, and arrange the numbers as desired.

This method gave some element of randomness in the stats, while generally eliminating the "one player rolls really high; one rolls really low" issue from the standard 4d6. However, I generally found that it left most characters with one really low stat, moreso than occurred with the standard 4d6.

 

[Aus_Snow]

For a slight variation on the array approach, you could set one up all-odds or all-evens, then have each player apply, let's say, a +1 and two -1s (to a different ability score each time, max. 18) - this gives three odds and three evens, and a bit of flexibility, while preserving overall balance (and, of course, abilities that should be able to match their character concepts quite closely.) Modifiers from race, template, and so on are applied afterwards.

For example, if it's a rather high-powered campaign (or an extremely dangerous one, perhaps!) you could go for something like this: 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8. Equivalent to 38pb before adjustments, so some would call this over the top, or worse.

A (for some) radical alternative is 'ability auctions' where, well, the players get to bid on each ability. This has cropped up in a few systems out there, but I'm not sure how popular it has proved / would prove with many gamers.