LEB Discussion Thread '09

[CaBaNa]

ah the circle of life

 

[Kalidrev]

Isn't it though. I won't put in my $.02 on the Avenger (since I don't want to ruin someone else's potential enjoyment of the class, even if I'm switching out of it). Have fun DarwinofMind!

 

[Velmont]

The thing about avenger, it is not the amount of damage they can do out in a single attack, it is the fact they will rarely miss when condition are good for him, and in that case, they will do damage comparable to other strikers over the long run. But I always liked to see a striker do a lot of damage in a single round, even if he miss the two next round. On the hit, it raise a bit the spirit. Take that smart ... !!!

 

[Kalidrev]

Yeah, that is exactly the problem I've had with the Avenger. The striker, to me, is supposed to be about spike damage. The Avenger just doesn't have that. He may hit every round, but when the Defender is out-damaging you nearly every round... it's kind of depressing.

 

[Velmont]

Well, if you talk about Valahad, he is almost a Stiker himself. Ardent Paladin with a feat that give him Oath of Enmity... that's strikish a lot. Val role is not as clear as his class let guess.

 

[renau1g]

My dwarf warden routinely outhits the strikers with his at-will (1d10+12, brutal 2).

 

[elecgraystone]

I've never been able to get into the avenger myself. I've made up several to see how they'd turn out but I never actually wanted to play them...

I know what you mean Velmont. My artificer leans towards striker and my druid and warlock lean towards meat shield [defenders]. Heck, my artificer doesn't even look like one.

 

[EvolutionKB]

Valahad can hit like a truck. But he's built to; he doesn't have the leaderly abilities like a normal pally.

On avengers, WotC might have heard the low damage pleas, see the current Dragon. Paragon feat that lets you do your Wis mod in damage to your oath target 1/rd is pretty nice. Too bad it's paragon.

 

[renau1g]

I think the problem lies with certain strikers (namely barbarian and ranger) being able to put out obscene amounts of damage and having possibly more staying power than an avenger (barbarian certainly does). They now lost their ability to have a fairly decent AC to stay in the front lines and are now relegated to super-squishy status, while barbs got a new feat to add Con to AC? so now your level 1 avenger has AC around 15-16 or so and the barbarian has 17-18 more hp, more damage, etc...

I love the flavour of the avengers, but the class design is fairly weak overall.

 

[Kalidrev]

Yeah, R1, that's exactly it. I wasn't happy with the Avenger BEFORE the nerfs, now I'm really disappointed, which is exactly why I'm going to go back to something I KNOW I like playing...the Rogue. It may not be the Barbarian, but it's damage bonus is a SELF controlled mechanism (just get Combat Advantage; done), I can do it EVERY round (unlike the assassin, though the assassin's possible damage output is insane...in a good way), and with a dagger, while it may not be a 1d12, high-crit weapon (looks at all of those fullblade wielders...), it is well worth it for the rogue to use it (the +1 attack bonus is worth every part of the lower damage bonus... plus I can throw it ^_^).

I can't wait for this battle to be over with so that I can get Lan his XP and switch to the new character... which is almost done being created. I just need to add his fluff in and he'll be done and ready for approval!

Oh heck... and I completely forgot that I'll be able to add a second character too! Oooh... what to play, what to play... Does LEB need any more Defenders?