Why I think I dislike coop games

[Asmor]

I think I've finally discovered (at least one of...) the reasons I dislike most coop games. Being told what to do.

I don't know if it's just the groups I tend to play with, but in a coop game it feels like you're not actually making your own decisions but being forced to go along with a sort of group decision making policy. I mean, obviously you could defy them if you wanted, but frequently the group does come to something resembling a "best" decision and, infuriating though it may be, it would be clearly suboptimal to NOT go with their suggestion.

I think I might enjoy co-ops more if there was a no table talk rule, or perhaps even a rule that when it's not your turn as far as speaking of the game goes you're only allowed to answer questions asked directly of you from the person whose turn it currently is.

 

[Badwe]

A traitor element and a certain amount of hidden information within the game mechanics tends to go a long way for me, hence why battlestar galactica is one of my favorite co-op games.

We often ran into a similar problem with Pandemic, and after getting over the initial learning curve we agreed to play by the rules and not lay our hands out on the table. To this end, we effectively trusted each other to know what would be most optimal to do on their turn, and because of the cumbersome nature of exchanging info about your hand, it kept optimizing-fests to a minimum.

A similar issue was addressed on the "Games with Garfield" podcast. if you're not familiar, many of the original designers of Magic: The gathering (including Richard Garfield) discuss aspects of (non-economic) game theory.

here's the link: Games with Garfield » Podcast #1: Cooperative Games

i had forgotten it was their very first podcast.

 

[Asmor]

Wait... There's a gaming podcast... With Richard Garfield... and I don't know about it?

Awesome, thanks!

 

[Crothian]

Pademic is the co op game I know the best and there are different levels of cummincation that they suggest. Not talking to each other is not something we have done. The closest is on each player's turn no one else may make suggestions unless that player specifically asks someone for help.

I do think it does come down to the players. Some people are bosier then others and determined to make sure weveryine does the right thing ie whatever they suggest. I play with good friends so telling one of them to shut up is not so much of a big deal.

 

[Jhaelen]

I think I've finally discovered (at least one of...) the reasons I dislike most coop games. Being told what to do.

But don't you also play rpgs?
How do you cope with other pcs recommending a course of action in rpgs?

 

[Blackbrrd]

But don't you also play rpgs?
How do you cope with other pcs recommending a course of action in rpgs?

In rpg's you play a character and behave accordingly to how you want your character to behave. So, if you feel like a bit of a loner doing things his way, you can play it like that.

In my current 4e game a round is 6 seconds, and you have about that long to say what you are doing when the DM calls for your action. In other words: you have to make your own decision or the DM will skip you. (You can of course get hints out-of-turn, which is what I trying to make people do, making the game fast-paced and tactical, but I want the hints in-character.)

 

[Crothian]

In rpg's you play a character and behave accordingly to how you want your character to behave. So, if you feel like a bit of a loner doing things his way, you can play it like that.

In my current 4e game a round is 6 seconds, and you have about that long to say what you are doing when the DM calls for your action. In other words: you have to make your own decision or the DM will skip you. (You can of course get hints out-of-turn, which is what I trying to make people do, making the game fast-paced and tactical, but I want the hints in-character.)

THat's not a rule of the game though. That is something you added and happens to combat this.

 

[Badwe]

RPGs are one of the things specifically addressed in the podcast. the implication is that by playing a role you detach yourself from optimal group-play and this help keeps the bossiness in check. Of course, if your group or some of your players doesn't/don't stress roleplaying it can lead to that. I had one of my players in a 4e game tell another player to fork over a healing potion to evade death, which would have resulted in the death of the player with the potion. things got tense and i ultimately had to intervene and remind the players to let everyone play their own character.

 

[Jhaelen]

RPGs are one of the things specifically addressed in the podcast. the implication is that by playing a role you detach yourself from optimal group-play and this help keeps the bossiness in check.

Okay, I can see that. It's true that when you're roleplaying even if you're playing a cooperative member of an adventuring party you typically abstain from clearly self-destructive behaviour (unless that behaviour would fit your role).

In a cooperative board game there are indeed situations where you are expected to make sacrifices to allow the team to succeed.

When thinking about our Arkham Horror sessions, we don't really play optimally: E.g. some players generally refuse to part with items if they don't get recompensation even if it would clearly be more advantageous for everyone if another investigator got the item.

It's what makes playing the game in a group more challenging than playing it solo

 

[Blackbrrd]

THat's not a rule of the game though. That is something you added and happens to combat this.

It's well within the spirit of the game.

I don't think it says anywhere that you are supposed to role-play either, something I do anyway.