WotC and brick and mortar retail stores - Greg Leeds weighs in

That's been my observation as well. This weekend in nearby Rochester, NY at the University of Rochester, there is a game convention run by students. I have some Cub Scout activities and a Blue & Gold dinner I have to attend with my nephews, but if I have time, I really want to swing by at least one day to check it out and see the local demographic.

This brings up a question. I think it's obvious to most of us that our hobby is aging, with many gamers in their 30s or later. I think there's some hope in younger players coming along as the offspring of these mature gamers, but the numbers of young gamers are pretty paltry at the moment. i do hear a fair amount about college games, but not a lot about high school or post college ones.

How many post-college single 20-somethings are playing RPGs? Certainly a lot of them are "gamers" in the sense that they play WoW, Magic, or the like. But how many are tabletop roleplayers? I certainly hadn't heard of a lot of games going in my circle of friends until the 4e-era started - and I work at the Renaissance Faire! That said, there still aren't many, but there's more than there used to be.

I guess the real question is whether the gaming industry has been catering to an ever-aging market? I certainly don't think it has been as easy to get into D&D from the mid-90s to the present as it was back in the Red Box days.

Does anyone here know a lot of single 20-something gamers?
 

log in or register to remove this ad



re: demographics... my (currently 4e) group ranges between their mid-30s to early 40s. Two people are married with young children, three are childless but either married or in a long-term relationships, and one is single. I believe all but one of us started gaming with OD&D/AD&D.

And I also believe we all shop for RPG products online.
 

I can beat that. I've been told that the reason that a gaming store wasn't going to restock a picked through supply of Reaper Miniatures was because they were having such a hard time selling the ones they already had.

Think about that a moment.

They bought a bunch of miniatures. Half of them sold. The remaining half sat on the shelf forever. They aren't willing to restock the part that sold because of the slow sales of the part that hasn't sold.

Imagine if you had a sandwich shop, and you have supplies for 10 reubens and 10 tuna salad sandwiches. You've sold 10 reubens, and 1 tuna salad. You aren't willing to buy supplies for more reubens until the tuna salad is gone, so now you don't sell anything at all.

Sad.

This one is particularly egregious, because Reaper has a pretty much free return policy. Return the unsold, get new stock dollar for dollar.

I think dead stock kills a lot of stores. Grocery stores make a healthy profit on tiny margins because everything turns over so quick that they can reinvest the money in new stock... that turns over quick.

My last FLGS went under because they didn't buy smart, and didn't discount stuff to make it sell. $5 in stock that sits on the shelf isn't as valuable to your business as $2 that sells at 10% profit every couple of weeks.

PS
 

I think dead stock kills a lot of stores. Grocery stores make a healthy profit on tiny margins because everything turns over so quick that they can reinvest the money in new stock... that turns over quick.

There are a lot of game stores I've seen out there holding on to old stock, especially stuff from the d20 glut era. Most won't mark it down either. Stores like that need to start thinking of their wasted floor and shelf space as money they are losing. They'd be better off dumping most of that old stock with massive in-store discounts, or selling it online at Ebay or through their own Web sites. Even if they lose money on what they paid for it, at least they can reclaim their valuable floor and shelf space back.

The best game stores I've seen have some value-added that you can't get from the online purchasing experience. Table space to play is a big one. Food and beverages, WiFi, computers with games and Internet access are all be cool too. They also need to branch out in what they sell - RPGs and supplies, board games, computer games, and comics, for starters. Again, making the best use of the available space for maximum return.
 

There are a lot of game stores I've seen out there holding on to old stock, especially stuff from the d20 glut era. Most won't mark it down either. Stores like that need to start thinking of their wasted floor and shelf space as money they are losing. They'd be better off dumping most of that old stock with massive in-store discounts, or selling it online at Ebay or through their own Web sites.

I've seen a store with ancient stock (stuff that is 20 years old) and not marked down at all; pretty tragic. Even worse, the good parts of the old stuff are long gone. Modules for marvel superheroes or battletech are of limited use without the actual games being in stock -- especially of the most interesting and popular items are long gone!

In that sense, used book stories are often better as they price older games based on market value which prevents a glut of the uninteresting.
 

My wife and I used to get our stuff off of amazon simply because of price. About a year ago, we started getting our stuff from our flgs instead of amazon because the prices were similair, i didn't have to wait on shipping, and i met a nice large gaming group at the store and thus wanted to make sure my money keeps the environment going.

I've got 4 FLGS within about 30 minutes of me in the orlando area.
I only frequent one of them for DnD needs.

Store 1) Big mega gaming store. Everything you could ever want, all at full retail for most of it. They run a lot of 40k stuff. I go there for metal minis for the wife to paint and some older stuff. They also have anime and networked video games. Staff is mostly there to ring me up. It's the super market of gaming.

Store 2) Mostly a comic store with some nice out of print 3.5 stuff. I scooped up most of thier dungeon tile stock a while back. They run dnd encounters, but are a bit far and are in a part of town you wont catch me in at night.

Store 3) Small place in a shopping center. Looks to be mostly 40k and flames of war. I get my wife vallejo paints and some gale force 9 terrain stuff here. Small amount of DnD selection. Not very much room, staff are friendly enough, but not that engaging in my opinion. They just started dnd encounters.

Store 4) This is the store i go to for most of my rp needs. Nice amount of space (in fact, just moved to a bigger unit with even more space). Very friendly staff that are engaging and join in for rpga and other stuff. Most of the store is play area with some nice product display areas. Don't see something you want, check one of the in store computers and they get it for you from in back. This store looks to be a heavy MtG store, as you can find at least 1 or 2 full tables at any given time. I get my DnD stuff here with only pennies of difference between amazon prices, and i don't have to wait on shipping. I also get my wotc minis for dnd and star wars here, as they are significantly cheaper than anywhere else. They sell snacks and drinks at reasonable prices (and i'm sure there is a decent prfit on snacks and drinks). I both play and dm rpga lfr games there. Sadly, no DnD encounters as it conflicts with a wednesday board game night that is PACKED and wotc does not want to budge on wednesdays. And yes, they have a cute geek game girl as an employee. The groups of ppl i play with there are varied widely in age, from teens to those in their 50/60s. Some ppl have been mentioned trying to setup some pathfinder games, but there just isn't the interest from the players and no one seems to want to DM it. Myself, i'd like to run some Star Wars Saga Edition games.

As for the view that wizards is trying to drum up sales, good for them! Whether 4e is selling good or not (and i hope it is), it only makes sense bring in as many new faces as possible to your product.

I feel DnD Encounters is trying to add more people the community. Especially younger players. With the short attention span rug rats, it's hard to get them to stay focused for 4+ hours. I want to strangle my little brother whenever i DM him and his gf because they wont pay attention. With this being a single enounter, 1-2 hours, you have a better chance of hooking them. Hook them, they buy product, make money, which goes towards making more product, and everyone gains. You also have quick rewards via renown to keep them wanting more.

Additionally, if this program can drive business into a store, store owners have the opportunity to expose that player to other product. "Hi, did you enjoy the encounter? We offer a fine selection of DnD books, dice, game mats, etc if you need anything. You should also come check out our board game nights and CCG nights! I've got some starter sets that can get you right specifc into those CCG games as well! Why don't you bring some friends and try some of the board games we offer free to play? If you like it, why not get a copy for home!"

It's all about the upsell.

I was also hesitant about the direction wotc is taking for the essentials product line. But you know what, they are doing the right thing. The economy is tough, not going to get any easier any time soon, and everyone is tightening thier belts. If you can bundle your game in a cheaper fashion and make boxed sets with everything a small group will need to play cheaply, you are going to bring in new customers who would have walked away from the expensive 3 book core set. At a lower price point, parents are more inclined to give it a chance with their money. More new customers that you hook, your business unit stays alive and you get to make more products for your core audience.

"But they will loose my business bc i don't want n00b products".

Apparently they thought of that and are making sure the essentials have new material in them. Of course some people are just stubborn for stubborn's sake, and well, you can't please everyone(zomg, new edition, i have to buy all new books bc my old ones will cease to exist on launch day! Stupid evil corporation trying to make money while offering a new type of play experience! boooooo!).

What it basically boils down to: for some ppl, it's all about cost, which is perfectly fine when you are hurting for cash. For others, especially as one grows up, you learn that camaraderie, pleasent experiences, and mood are worth a little bit more of your hard earned money. If your store doesn't create such an environment, perhaps it should. A customer that feels welcomed will revisit. You don't need to be an expert on any given product, but you do need to help find what the customer is looking for or answer their questions.

-J
 

My FLGS has stuff on the shelves that is easily 35 years old that never sold.

You mean it has the original Dungeons & Dragons and Chainmail? Because that's the only RPG stuff that is "easily 35 years old". OK, I'm being facetious, although it is worth pointing out that the problem isn't the stuff 15+ years old, it is the stuff 5-15 years old, in particular old and unwanted OGL stuff (how many copies of Diomin are floating around out there? And why were so many printed in the first place?).

There is a simple solution that every successful retailer should know: discount table/bin. I won't buy Diomin for $19.95 (or whatever it cost), but I might shell $5 out for it, especially if nothing else suits my fancy.

This brings up a question. I think it's obvious to most of us that our hobby is aging, with many gamers in their 30s or later. I think there's some hope in younger players coming along as the offspring of these mature gamers, but the numbers of young gamers are pretty paltry at the moment. i do hear a fair amount about college games, but not a lot about high school or post college ones.

How many post-college single 20-somethings are playing RPGs? Certainly a lot of them are "gamers" in the sense that they play WoW, Magic, or the like. But how many are tabletop roleplayers? I certainly hadn't heard of a lot of games going in my circle of friends until the 4e-era started - and I work at the Renaissance Faire! That said, there still aren't many, but there's more than there used to be.

I guess the real question is whether the gaming industry has been catering to an ever-aging market? I certainly don't think it has been as easy to get into D&D from the mid-90s to the present as it was back in the Red Box days.

Does anyone here know a lot of single 20-something gamers?

I think that's more of a time-of-life thing: post-college 20-somethings are busy doing other things (going to clubs, dating, establishing careers). I would guess that the bulk of RPGers are either 12-21 or 30-45; that is, pre-teens and teenagers and Gen-Xers. yes,t here is a generation thing, and I would guess that there are less 12-21 year olds playing than there were twenty years ago, when Gen-X was 12-25 or so. But it isn't either/or.

re: demographics... my (currently 4e) group ranges between their mid-30s to early 40s. Two people are married with young children, three are childless but either married or in a long-term relationships, and one is single. I believe all but one of us started gaming with OD&D/AD&D.

And I also believe we all shop for RPG products online.

I didn't know we played played in the same group, Mallus?! ;)
 

Frankly, that sounds like it could be awesome ebay material if the stuff's any good or has any following on the nostalgia market.

I've tried to tell him that. I even bought something from him at full retail, turned around and sold it on eBay for about 100% profit. I've seen him buy more stuff on eBay than I've seen him sell.

You mean it has the original Dungeons & Dragons and Chainmail? Because that's the only RPG stuff that is "easily 35 years old". OK, I'm being facetious

He probably does have copies of OD&D and Chainmail. Since he also sells wargames, boardgames, trains, models, historical books, model rockets, and dollhouse stuff there is a plethora of old stuff around.

There is a simple solution that every successful retailer should know: discount table/bin. I won't buy Diomin for $19.95 (or whatever it cost), but I might shell $5 out for it, especially if nothing else suits my fancy.

I agree, but in the ~20 years I've know him he has never put anyhting on sale at a discount. Ever. It shocks me that he's stayed open so long.
 

Remove ads

Top