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It feels to me like Hasbro has lit a fire under Wizards of the Coast, and given them

dvvega

Explorer
Unfortunately the way things run here "down-under" buying from Amazon is still cheaper than buying from my local B&M (run by a good friend). I get torn between supporting a good friend and budgeting my money.

And the problem here is party WOTCs. They opened up in Australia but decided to rip the guts out of the market by trying to dominate with overpricing.

In addition the previous story given regarding boxes of magic happens here as well, however WOTC has not got as strong a foothold and so I know of storekeepers that send stock back and make demands on Wizards here and - for now - are getting their way.

D
 

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TheYeti1775

Adventurer
1. Then for D&D, you don't count. You aren't a current buyer from any source. Just like I didn't really count for 3.5.

2. How much were the books? If they didn't like it, it's 6 copies of (obscure-ish) garbage that you might get $.50 a copy for used. That's a definite risk.

There are some nice things about ordering online, don't get me wrong, but when I see people going to game stores, checking stuff out, reading books, inquiring of the staff and expecting swag turn around and order online, I find that ridiculous. That's biting the hand that showed you. If you're risking products sight-unseen, then that's a different animal all together.

1. Nope but I do buy Pathfinder stuff. I do buy other 3E D20 stuff as well. Some of it current on the market now. But this was also true during the complete time I was playing 3/3.5E when it was the current edition.

2. One time it was Dawnforge, the other time it was Valus. When I find a product with value, I like to share it. Neither were an unseen product at the time as I already owned them from exposure from other gamers. Exposure in a LGS had no part in my picking them up.

No I don't use the LGS/Bookstores as mini-libraries for checking out the latest product and than rush home to buy them.
I'll use reviews I might find here or on other gaming forums I frequent, but generally I use a method that is quite frowned on in this neck of the woods.
Giving it a quick preview test drive via a download. Yes pirating bad, smack Yeti's wrist. But guess what I'm one of the few ones that if I like it, I actually hunt down a physical copy of the book. Those methods have saved me quite a few bucks on not buying products I didn't like.

I think what is failed to realize on all parties, it is not a Gamer's responsibility to keep a store open. And it is not WotC's responsibility either. It is the responsibility of the that store's owner.

For me LGS use is a weekend only thing at best. I work 100 miles from home with a 2 hour commute each way. The nearest LGS to me is about 35 miles. The last thing I want to due is drive another 30-45 minutes after getting home to a store on the off chance they have something in stock.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
Unfortunately the way things run here "down-under" buying from Amazon is still cheaper than buying from my local B&M (run by a good friend). I get torn between supporting a good friend and budgeting my money.

And the problem here is party WOTCs. They opened up in Australia but decided to rip the guts out of the market by trying to dominate with overpricing.

Um, that's the way it works almost everywhere. Purchasing online, through Amazon or through other retailers, is almost always cheaper, easier, and more convenient that purchasing through your local retailer. It's not WotC's fault at all, it's a fact of today's market and it affects much more than game products.

In addition the previous story given regarding boxes of magic happens here as well, however WOTC has not got as strong a foothold and so I know of storekeepers that send stock back and make demands on Wizards here and - for now - are getting their way.

I'm not going to believe the story about WotC forcing quotas on stores until I hear it from a reliable first-hand source. I smell the stinky smell of rumor and hearsay quoted as fact. I can see certain distributors pulling this type of shenanigans and blaming WotC, but I would be surprised if this is truly WotC behavior and policy.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
1. Then for D&D, you don't count. You aren't a current buyer from any source. Just like I didn't really count for 3.5.

2. How much were the books? If they didn't like it, it's 6 copies of (obscure-ish) garbage that you might get $.50 a copy for used. That's a definite risk.

Sure, if someone purchases used books, the money doesn't go to WotC or any other game company. But that's true regardless of whether you purchase online or through your FLGS.

There are some nice things about ordering online, don't get me wrong, but when I see people going to game stores, checking stuff out, reading books, inquiring of the staff and expecting swag turn around and order online, I find that ridiculous. That's biting the hand that showed you. If you're risking products sight-unseen, then that's a different animal all together.

Did I miss a post where someone proudly claimed to preview books at their FLGS and then go order them online? Sure, it happens, but there will always be folks who do this sort of thing.

What many of us are saying in this thread (and others) is that our local game stores have not provided enough incentive to get us to stop purchasing online and start shopping at their store. I've been to some awesome stores in other parts of the country from where I live that I would patronize in a heartbeat because they provide atmosphere and services I can't get online. My local store isn't truly a bad store, in fact if you're a board gamer or miniature gamer they're pretty good . . . but if you're an RPG player they are mediocre at best and give me no incentive to change my online purchasing habits. If the store wants to thrive, survive, and grow they need to find ways to get me in the store and convince me to spend money.

I get tired of listening to disgruntled store owners bitching about WotC, Games Workshop, or <insert company here>, or the changing nature of the business. Take positive proactive steps to make your store a destination location, such as actually participating in easy marketing promotions like D&D Encounters and Free RPG Day. Stores that continue to fail to adapt to the changes in retail and go under will not cause me to shed any tears.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Take positive proactive steps to make your store a destination location, such as actually participating in easy marketing promotions like D&D Encounters and Free RPG Day. Stores that continue to fail to adapt to the changes in retail and go under will not cause me to shed any tears.

I'd agree that D&D Encounters was a easy marketing promotion if it wasn't limited to Wednesday only. That restriction makes it impossible for my (and other) FLGS to participate.

We ran the D&D Game Day. That worked well; however, the D&D Encounters? We can't even try to participate.

The requirement of Wednesday-only is a piece of colossal arrogance on the part of Wizards of the Coast: it says they understand your local gaming scene better than you do. This is patently false.
 

Festivus

First Post
I'd agree that D&D Encounters was a easy marketing promotion if it wasn't limited to Wednesday only. That restriction makes it impossible for my (and other) FLGS to participate.

We ran the D&D Game Day. That worked well; however, the D&D Encounters? We can't even try to participate.

The requirement of Wednesday-only is a piece of colossal arrogance on the part of Wizards of the Coast: it says they understand your local gaming scene better than you do. This is patently false.

... and I bet that is a takeaway they will use with season 2 to lift said restriction. I suspect they were aiming for something akin to Friday Night Magic, which is wildly popular at the FLGS in my area.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
... and I bet that is a takeaway they will use with season 2 to lift said restriction. I suspect they were aiming for something akin to Friday Night Magic, which is wildly popular at the FLGS in my area.

I dare say that was the idea.

However, Wednesday? Really? Are you serious, Wizards?
 


Dire Bare

Legend
I'd agree that D&D Encounters was a easy marketing promotion if it wasn't limited to Wednesday only. That restriction makes it impossible for my (and other) FLGS to participate.

We ran the D&D Game Day. That worked well; however, the D&D Encounters? We can't even try to participate.

The requirement of Wednesday-only is a piece of colossal arrogance on the part of Wizards of the Coast: it says they understand your local gaming scene better than you do. This is patently false.

... and I bet that is a takeaway they will use with season 2 to lift said restriction. I suspect they were aiming for something akin to Friday Night Magic, which is wildly popular at the FLGS in my area.

I don't think that any particular store who does not take advantage of D&D Encounter specifically is being foolish, but rather than stores that fail to take advantage of these types of promotions repeatedly are being foolish.

However, any store would be smart to start running D&D Encounters, on Wednesday, ASAP! WotC isn't being arrogant at all, they are simply trying to build a successful promotion similar to FNM that will benefit both them and the local retailers. So your FLGS has already established events on Wednesdays? That's fine, put aside at least one table for D&D Encounters and continue your regularly scheduled events. If Encounters is anywhere as successful as FNM, it's going to be nothing but a win for participating stores.

I've already read some blog posts about stores running Encounters events on Wednesdays, and then following up with more sessions later in the week for those who missed out. Not sure if that's against the rules or not, but it could help spread things out for stores with minimal space and/or popular events already happening on Wednesdays.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Why is D&D Encounters restricted to Wednesday nights? This makes no sense to me.

Strangely enough, it does to me. Why I rail against it is due to other factors that I'll explain below.

Restricting D&D Encounters to Wednesdays only (any time on Wed, mind you, not just the evening) allows Wizards to promote a program that, regardless of where you are, you'll know what day it occurs on. Thus, if I wander into my FLGS on a Wednesday night, or if I'm in Melbourne, or if I'm in New York, I should be able to find a D&D Encounters session to play in. That uniformity of day does a lot to help promote the program and help settle the idea of D&D Encounters in everyone's minds. This, by itself, is not a bad thing.

Unfortunately, it then trips itself up and gets into trouble. And we must go to the reason there is D&D Encounters at all in the first place. My explanation for this may be inaccurate - I've gotten it 2nd or 3rd hand - but it makes sense to me.

You see, Wizards of the Coast are getting very concerned about losing D&D players.

Unlike many other hobbies, D&D requires a stable group to play. Most groups play in private homes and not in game stores. Then, when a group loses players, it is very common for the group to break up completely rather than recruit new players: where do they find new players? Magic: the Gathering breeds communities of players, especially as it often takes place in game stores where new players can easily find the games. D&D, in contrast, often exists in small self-contained groups that might exist for decades with little contact with the wider D&D community.

So, the loss of one player leads to the loss of the group, which leads to the lost of several D&D players.

This is a problem.

The solution, as Wizards sees it, is to promote more in-store play of D&D. This leads to the various D&D players in each local community coming to know each other, and thus the loss of a player means that everything need not come to a halt: there is enough of a replacement pool so that the group can continue. I don't think this is a bad idea, although there are problems...

D&D Encounters is then, as I see it, the primary tool that Wizards is using to promote the formation of these local D&D communities: an exclusively store-based program for D&D, which won't disrupt individual games that much, and allows people to have fun and meet other players.

Unfortunately, the Wednesday-only restriction then kicks the idea somewhere Eric's grandma won't allow me to post. There are many stores that will be able to run Wednesday-night D&D Encounters and get the community together for it. Fantastic! Chris Tulach twittered the other day that over 700 stores were participating in the first D&D Encounters session. Good for them. Pity then the stores that can't run a session on Wednesday due to a number of extremely valid reasons:

* They don't normally open late, so opening for D&D Encounters adds too much expense to run economically
* If run after 6pm, the schoolchildren who otherwise would be interested (if it was on Friday or Saturday) need to do schoolwork and can't attend
* If run before 5pm, you get the schoolchildren, but the adults (who might actually include the only possible DM) can't attend.

I'm sure you can think of more.

So, an idea for running D&D Encounters to benefit stores (and thus the formation of local D&D Communities) actually only benefits the stores (and communities) that are able to gather on these Wednesdays. Hmm.

It seems to me that the local store (and community) would be a far better judge of when the most convenient time would be for this. But no, that's not what has happened. To confuse us all, all the initial promotional materials indicated we could run D&D Encounters on the day of our choosing with Wednesday preferred... but then they changed their mind.

I'll just touch on a major drawback of the D&D Encounters scheme for promoting D&D play in store and the formation of communities anyway: it's really based on being played by people who really like D&D combat. Running meaningful roleplaying & problem-solving in those encounters is likely to be very hard indeed. Impossible? I doubt it; but the very nature of the beast is that the roleplayers and storymakers aren't going to be attracted to this like the combat/tactics players are. So, a local D&D community might form, but not made up of the greater population of D&D players.

That's how I see it, anyway. Others may give better explanations. In fact, I hope they do.

Cheers!
 

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