Some PC designs bouncing in my head...

[Dannyalcatraz]

So a guy in our group is talking about trying out 4Ed at some point after the current campaign's adventure arc ends. As "The Librarian" of the group, I decided to expand my 4Ed collection beyond the initial 3 books to add PHB2 & 3, FR and Eberron to give the group a nice selection of races and classes to work with.

I've also started thinking about what I'd like to play.

The 2 concepts I have right now are:

TOMMY BAHAMUT
Dragonborn
Bard/Artificer (or Artificer/Bard)

He's an easygoing type who wants to spread a message of peace and relaxation throughout the world. He'd love to live out his days sipping mixed drinks on a beach somewhere, but he doesn't think it would be right to do so in a world where evil runs rampant.

and

BOX
Warforged
Monk/Warlock (Infernal Pact)

Box was designed as a sentient gateway to hell (think of a walking, talking LeMarchant Box from Hellraiser) who is rebelling against his intended purpose. As such, he fights evil wherever he finds it...but he's not above manifesting powers that result from his nature if it serves a greater good.

as a result, I have some questions about the multiclassing rules.

1) Am I right in thinking that multiclassing Feats have NO level prerequisites?

2) The list of benefits from the MC Feats seems fairly explicit and limited. For example, am I right in thinking that Box, who multiclasses into Warlock does NOT get

i) Eldritch Blast,
ii) Prime Shot,
iii) Shadow Walk,
iv) Warlock's Curse or
v) access to Warlock powers?

3) The only way for a multiclassed PC to get powers from his second class is with the Power-Swap feats?

 

[Mort_Q]

1) Am I right in thinking that multiclassing Feats have NO level prerequisites?

The initial feat in each set doesn't. Some of the others do, but they have the initial feat as a prerequisite.

2) The list of benefits from the MC Feats seems fairly explicit and limited. For example, am I right in thinking that Box, who multiclasses into Warlock does NOT get

i) Eldritch Blast,
ii) Prime Shot,
iii) Shadow Walk,
iv) Warlock's Curse or
v) access to Warlock powers?

You get what you get...

Student of Malediction gives you the Warlock's curse as an encounter power.
Pact Initiate gives you Eldritch Blast as an encounter power.
You can pick up Shadow Walk with another feat.

Have you looked into the Hybrid rules?

3) The only way for a multiclassed PC to get powers from his second class is with the Power-Swap feats?

Correct. Again... have you looked into the Hybrid rules? D&DI Character Builder updates with the PH3 stuff on Tuesday (iirc)... if you have an account.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yeah, I looked at the Hybrid rules in PHB3. Can't say I'm all that impressed.

And no, I don't have a DDI account.

 

[Mort_Q]

Well... to each their own... but a Hybrid Monk / Warlock will get you a lot closer to your vision of BOX then multiclassing will... unless you start mid-paragon.

I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In all fairness, the Hybrid rules are better than the standard 4Ed multiclassing rules- I just prefer 3.X's take on multiclassing.

That said, my main reason for not going with the Hybrid rules would be to make things easier for the DM.

OTOH, he may go full-out gung-ho for the system, so who knows what will be in play? I'm just doing a little brainstorming and making sure I'm doing it right...

 

[Storminator]

In all fairness, the Hybrid rules are better than the standard 4Ed multiclassing rules- I just prefer 3.X's take on multiclassing.

That said, my main reason for not going with the Hybrid rules would be to make things easier for the DM.

OTOH, he may go full-out gung-ho for the system, so who knows what will be in play? I'm just doing a little brainstorming and making sure I'm doing it right...

Assuming you know and follow all the rules, your hybrid PC won't be that different from all the others. You get a set of at-will, encounter, and daily powers and you use 'em. From your end it's a little more complex because of the restrictions on which powers you can take and how your class features interact with them. You can, however, insulate your DM from all of that pretty easily.

PS

 

[jbear]

Both seem like very cool character concepts. You are correct in assuming you gain only what the multiclass feat says, and none of the pact boon and other features of the warlock. To gain access to other powers, be it encounter, utility or daily, each will cost you a feat.

Box, unfortunately is going to be a little sub par at hitting things as his racial bonus gives +2 Str and +2 Con. Your warlock powers will be limited to CON based powers, which is fine. But you main powers are going to key of DEX for the Monk side of things. I guess it fits, box being a hunk of metal, having 16 as his prime attribute... after all he's not the quickest out of the shed. 18 would be better, and you could still get a 14 in STR and CON ... or even a 16 in CON (which means you'll get no secondary benefits from your monk powers which are STR or WIS. Still your warlock powers are going to have a lower chance to hit and you will be penalised in so far as Implements unless you fight with daggers instead of your fists. Your Ki implement can not be used with your Warlock powers (I think this totally sucks) so that will further lower your Hit chance. I don't think a monk warlock would make a good hybrid at all. Good luck building the Box!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Tommy Bahamut was my first 4Ed PC concept...but I had to wait a while for the classes to model him: Bard was essential since I envision him as kind of a Draconic Jimmy Buffet, but it needn't be the primary class.

Box is based on something from my 3.5 Mage-Brute concepts, and is one part sentient LeMarchand Box and one part Hellboy. So he's a big lumbering brute with a definite connection to evil.

The trick with him in 4Ed is that Hellboy is a hands-on warrior: he may improvise now and again, but he primarily fights with his fists. Thus, it seemed that Monk was the way to go, despite his stat mods not supporting the class. And nothing else in 4Ed screamed infernal origins like the Infernal Pact Warlock.

 

[PoorHobo]

The trick with him in 4Ed is that Hellboy is a hands-on warrior: he may improvise now and again, but he primarily fights with his fists. Thus, it seemed that Monk was the way to go, despite his stat mods not supporting the class. And nothing else in 4Ed screamed infernal origins like the Infernal Pact Warlock.

Monk doesn't really fit lumbering brute, and stats are all off for a monk/warlock Warforged multiclass or hybrid. I pulled up DDI and tried to build the concept. I went with the brawler fighter instead. The brawler fighter uses a weapon in one hand and keeps an empty hand free for grabs pulls and throws. For his melee weapon I used a spiked gauntlet. Built as a brawler fighter Box could run around smashing multiple foes with his fists, throwing them to the ground and whatnot, he's just got a spiked gauntlet to help out.

With this build I stacked Strength and CON, putting only 13 in CHA to grab the Warlock pact initiate feat. This also makes for a lumbering brute who is slightly more intimidating than your average bear.

The only other problem is that a brawler fighter will be using a guantlet, but warlock powers need an implement. I think there are feats you can take later that allows you to merge them, in the mean time when its time to whip out your implement you can use your off hand and then put it away when it its time to jump back into the fray

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Monk doesn't really fit lumbering brute, and stats are all off for a monk/warlock Warforged multiclass or hybrid.

True, but I never let "suboptimal" get in the way of PC design. The reason I went with Monk was because Hellboy is primarily an unarmed combatant...and that means Monk, generally speaking. He is what he is. He is the summation of the choices that he made to that point in time.

(Just like I should probably have become an artist/musician or MD instead of a lawyer, but that's a different story...)

However...

I went with the brawler fighter instead. The brawler fighter uses a weapon in one hand and keeps an empty hand free for grabs pulls and throws. For his melee weapon I used a spiked gauntlet. Built as a brawler fighter Box could run around smashing multiple foes with his fists, throwing them to the ground and whatnot, he's just got a spiked gauntlet to help out.

Hellboy DOES have a gauntlet on one hand- his "Right Hand of Doom"- so this definitely has merit. The Brawler Fighter...is that just a Fighter with a gauntlet or is it something I can only build with online resources? In addition, is it a Fighter ONLY build, or would it work with something like Barbarian or another warrior class?

The only other problem is that a brawler fighter will be using a guantlet, but warlock powers need an implement. I think there are feats you can take later that allows you to merge them, in the mean time when its time to whip out your implement you can use your off hand and then put it away when it its time to jump back into the fray

The main time when Hellboy uses a weapon is when he uses his specially made gun, Samaritan, so having an off-hand holster for his implement would still be in character...as would be getting Eldritch Blast.