Do you "save" the PCs?

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I am not at all surprised that, asked by the DM "Do you mind if I sometimes fudge" the answer comes back "I suppose you know what you're doing, but don't tell me about it."

I wonder what answer those same DMs would get to the questions: "Would you prefer that I didn't fudge?" and "Why?" or "Why not?"



RC
 

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I am not at all surprised that, asked by the DM "Do you mind if I sometimes fudge" the answer comes back "I suppose you know what you're doing, but don't tell me about it."

I wonder what answer those same DMs would get to the questions: "Would you prefer that I didn't fudge?" and "Why?" or "Why not?"



RC

The answer I got was "I want and expect the DM to fudge, because the DM knows what will make for a fun game and cool story."
 


That was quick. I expect they gave that answer a lot of thought!

:lol:

RC

You forget, like Umbran, I sent out calls and asked questions 2 days ago on this topic. My buddy called me back yesterday, and that was close to exactly what he said. He had gotten my message and had the day to think about it, and took the time to call me back, and that was the first thing out of his mouth. he then expounded on it.

So yes, he gave it a lot of thought.
 

The answer I got was "I want and expect the DM to fudge, because the DM knows what will make for a fun game and cool story."

I understand the possible reasons for this kind of answer but for me personally as a player the story is only cool and the game really satisfying when it happens without being overly manipulated.
 

The answer to that one is quite simple - it is different because the roles of DM and Player are different. There's nothing at all strange about this. In games where a referee (or arbiter, or other figure concerned with meta-game issues) that role is typically wildly different from that of other players.

Why does the GM's role include fudging? I see the GM as the provider of the game world reality. Fudging to save a specific PC would make me wonder if they trust what they have created.

Conversely, a player has a vested personal interest in his PC. If anyone would have a reason for a specific PC to survive, it would be the player invested in them.

Perhaps it actually would make more sense if players were in charge of fudging to save their own PCs and GMs weren't.

On a thoroughly practical level, the DM should know far more about the context of the event and what is coming than the player does.

All the more reason not to subject the outcome to a GM's personal hesitancy. Such a decision carries with it an inherent bias, an imposition of the GM's preferences on the outcome. If a player cannot be trusted to fudge appropriately for their own PC, the GM certainly cannot be trusted to offer the players real freedom, as it is inevitible the GM's plans will clash with player choices, whether to a small or great extent.

I don't think it's wrong or awful for a parent to pick their child's college major. However, I don't think it's a good idea, either. I think giving the GM, with all their authority and tools and knowledge of the game, encouragement to fudge is much the same kind of problem. Good intentions are not in question. The question is the willingness to let things unfold as they will. Just as a parent, without any spirit of domination, might continue to nudge their offspring toward the "correct" college major, if they hold ultimate choice in their hands, a GM, without any disprespect toward his players, will certainly and definitely nudge the outcome of a game toward his or her ideal, and at that, the actual ideal, not the spoken one.

It is the dice that provide the GM an avenue to state truly, "This is your decision to make. You have a good estimation of the risks." Dice are democratic. They are also a blessing, a way of making possible what would be impossible: impartiality. Impartiality is the key that unlocks an imaginary reality in which choices matter. We already know that the imaginary world, being an invention of the GM, embodies his or her prejudices. The rules of the game transmute it into something apart from the personhood of the GM.
 

To expound a little more, he had gone on to say, that he expects a good story out of it, and only the GM knows when a PC's death would make a good ending or not.

Some of what he said, struck me as he expected the DM to be crafting a story such that the death was 'scripted".

I'm not fully comfortable with implementing that kind of interpretation, though I do recognize that ultimately, a GM decision is behind every death.


I see gaming as telling a story. One where as GM, I get a lot of influence, but where the Protagonists, not the dice, are my inspiration for what happens next. The dice are sort of a social contract to play make believe together. i don't really consider if a PC dying is a bad thing to be prevented until the situation comes up.

And that could be why we use D&D to do what we do. Do we get great stories out of it? To us, sure. A good time was had by all.
 


You forget, like Umbran, I sent out calls and asked questions 2 days ago on this topic.

Fair enough.

To expound a little more, he had gone on to say, that he expects a good story out of it, and only the GM knows when a PC's death would make a good ending or not.

Some of what he said, struck me as he expected the DM to be crafting a story such that the death was 'scripted".

I'm not fully comfortable with implementing that kind of interpretation, though I do recognize that ultimately, a GM decision is behind every death.

I commend you for not being fully comfortable with that kind of interpretation.

I see gaming as telling a story.

That's fine. If you are telling a story, I agree that you can and should use everything in the storyteller's bag of tricks to do so.

However, I tend to think that co-authoring a story, even if you include some randomness to the process, stretches the definition of "game" too far for my liking. We have had this conversation before, though, and you are obviously free to disagree with me.

It doesn't necessarily. The DM's role does include the authority which enables him to fudge, but fudging itself is not necessarily part of the role.

If I read Pawsplay correctly, that doesn't answer his question.

His question could be rephrased as "The DM's role does include the authority which enables him to fudge, but fudging itself is not necessarily part of the role. BUT, given the stated purpose of fudging, would it not make sense that the PLAYER's role, rather than the DM's role, would include the authority which enables the player to fudge, even though fudging itself is not necessarily part of the role?"


RC
 


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