May Rules Update

[holywhitetrash]

so it seems to me that people like the changes to healer's lore because of astral seal
then why not nerf astral seal by saying that it does not benefit from bonuses to healing
instead of nerfing the thing that made clerics standout

 

[Jools]

As is, the new Infernal Wrath is only slightly better than its previous incarnation. Add the feat Ferocious Rebuke (push target one square) and it becomes a winner. Free actions can interrupt so Tieflings can now completely avoid a melee 1 attack once per encounter. Thats pretty darned spiffy at level 1.

 

[Dice4Hire]

so it seems to me that people like the changes to healer's lore because of astral seal
then why not nerf astral seal by saying that it does not benefit from bonuses to healing
instead of nerfing the thing that made clerics standout

Astral seal was merely the most visible abuse of the surgeless healing problem.

There are lots more problems, and this rewording fixes all of them.

 

[keterys]

As is, the new Infernal Wrath is only slightly better than its previous incarnation. Add the feat Ferocious Rebuke (push target one square) and it becomes a winner. Free actions can interrupt so Tieflings can now completely avoid a melee 1 attack once per encounter. Thats pretty darned spiffy at level 1.

Free actions actually aren't immediate interrupts, so this part is less clear. The trigger is on being hit, so you were definitely hit by the power. You'll get table variance on whether a DM allows a power to hit you but not damage you, ie letting you insert the free action between the 'Hit' and 'Damage' steps.

 

[BobTheNob]

Astral seal was merely the most visible abuse of the surgeless healing problem.

There are lots more problems, and this rewording fixes all of them.

Absolutely. The issue with the cleric wasnt Astral seal, it was his ability to use all sorts of tricks (consecrated ground e.t.c.) to do surgeless healing. Astral seal was just the most visible of the pack.

Surgless healing is ok when it comes in little chunks, but when you combine bonus's on to it like the cleric could, and those little chunks quickly became quite large and the toughness and durability of a party backed by a properly specced cleric became such that the only way to break such a group was stupidly tough encounters way above their level. The game became trivial.

Excellent change.

 

[Obryn]

A summary of some changes is here

Holy crap, that thread's got more whine than Napa.

I mean, really? Declaring the Sorcerer a dead class because of the Daggermaster nerf? Declaring the Swordmage irrelevant because there's no longer feycharge cheese and enlarged swordbursts? It's like they're playing some other game and calling it 4e.

I am so glad I mostly stick around here, CM, and RPG.net.

-O

 

[Klaus]

A few interesting changes:

- Mounts no longer need to be Large, and you no longer need a saddle;
- A close "creatures"-targetting spell may hit the mount if the caster doesn't choose an origin square carefully (and in the case of a close burst, *will* hit the mount);
- For the first time, I see the PCs being called out as "Adventurers" (in the mount section). I guess that's the new technical term for the PCs?

 

[Stalker0]

The good

1) Better aid another rules!
2) Better infernal wrath. This will make the bard tiefling in my party very happy.
3) Nerfing surgeless healng. Healing imo is one of the most overpowered things in 4e.
4) General skill updates.
5) The new format. Finally I can flip through 3 pages and get my updates...not 20

The bad
1) Using character level for aid another. I overall like the intent, but I really dislike linking to character level. Why not link to...oh I don't know...the DC! So the more difficult the skill, the harder it is to aid.
2) Tons of nerfs and few buffs. The errata always takes those proud nails and knocks them down, but to me there's tons of things that aren't worth the paper they are printed on right now and could use a buff.

 

[Aulirophile]

so it seems to me that people like the changes to healer's lore because of astral seal
then why not nerf astral seal by saying that it does not benefit from bonuses to healing
instead of nerfing the thing that made clerics standout

The intention was actually to nerf surgless healing, Astral Heal was just the go-to surgless healing At-Will.

 

[holywhitetrash]

i still don't see why healer's lore needed the nerf at best you will get an addiontal 10 points out of those powers
yes i can see how combining it with all those healing items could get out of hand and how an at will surgeless could get cheesy so again why is my cleric (who doesn't use any of the powers i have seen mentioned) getting a nerf as opposed to those weapons and powers
idk maybe this bothers me just because my group just recently started using the errata