July Errata is up

[Nifft]

You lost me there. The old MM did 2d4 base which averages to 5; the new MM does a flat 2. That's a loss of only 3 damage, in exchange for never missing, which is a great tradeoff.

It's a lot more than that once you remember how many different things add to damage when you get past 1st level. My Wizard at 12th level gets:
- Enhancement
- Enhancement again (Dual Implement Spellcaster)
- Weapon Focus (Staff)
- Power bonuses (from our leader)

It's a loss of a LOT more than 3.

And what's faster: rolling attack and damage, or just saying "I move here and deal 7 damage. Done." In fact, one of the things that concerns me about the new MM is that it will shorten your turns so drastically that it will take all the enjoyment out of the game. Rolling dice is fun. Waiting 15 minutes for your turn, only to have your turn last 5 seconds, is not fun.

At-wills are fast in my group. Dunno why yours is slower, but mine has no trouble rolling attack & damage for our simplest powers.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mentat55]

If you like fast fights, you should hate the new MM. The damage is nerfed to the point that it's going to slow down combats against anything except Heroic-tier minions, unless you go out of your way to optimize for it.

It's not just a "change of pace", it's a rather major nerf to the power.

(If they made this version of Magic Missile a Minor action, it would be interesting.)

Cheers, -- N

At level 30, for a wizard with Int 28, a Staff of Ruin +6, Weapon Focus (staff), Dual Implement Spellcaster (with a +6 implement in the off-hand) and Wizard Implement Expertise, vs. a level 30 monster with Reflex 42 (wizard has a +33 vs. Reflex):

Original Magic Missile: 0.5*(10+9+6+3+6+6)+0.1*(16+9+6+3+6+6+33) = 27.9 damage.
Updated Magic Missile: 5+9+6 = 20 damage.

So the new magic missile suffers, mainly due to non-enhancement bonuses to damage (like feat and item bonuses, not to mention situational power bonuses) and the lack of critical damage. It also suffers against monsters with low Reflex, since the wizard will likely hit them anyways. If you use a Staff of Missile Mastery, you can push the updated MM damage to 26, still inferior, and that relies on using a weak implement.

It is specifically good at killing minions (since damage doesn't matter) and if you tack on additional effects, i.e., push 1 square with Wand of Magic Missile, it could be situationally better. But Nifft is right, it is weaker.

 

[Maximilia]

If they really wanted it like the "old" Magic Missile, they could have just added another missile at every tier, ie 2 at 11 and 3 at 21, that would be able to hit different targets.

 

[Nifft]

If they really wanted it like the "old" Magic Missile, they could have just added another missile at every tier, ie 2 at 11 and 3 at 21, that would be able to hit different targets.

Hand of Radiance (an Invoker power) is the new "real" Magic Missile.

Cheers, -- N

 

[MrMyth]

If you like fast fights, you should hate the new MM. The damage is nerfed to the point that it's going to slow down combats against anything except Heroic-tier minions, unless you go out of your way to optimize for it.

It's not just a "change of pace", it's a rather major nerf to the power.

(If they made this version of Magic Missile a Minor action, it would be interesting.)

If they made this a minor action it would be super broken.

Let's actually look at some numbers:

Level 1 Wizard, pre-Errata MM, 18 Int: 2d4+4 damage = ~9 damage. Assuming he hits half the time, that is ~4.5 average damage.

Level 1 Wizard, new MM, 18 Int: 6 damage.

Level 11 Wizard, pre-Errata MM, 20 Int, +3 Implement, random +3 damage bonus from feats/items: 2d4+11 damage = ~16 damage. Assuming 50% hit rate, ~8 damage.

Level 11 Wizard, new MM, 20 Int, +3 Implement: 9 damage.

Thus far, assuming a pretty average character and a 50% chance to hit, they seem rather equal.

Let's check a more optimized character, though, which is where the big difference will be felt.

Level 30 Wizard, pre-Errata MM. 30 Intelligence, +6 Deadly Staff of Ruin, +6 off-hand Implement and Dual Implement Spellcaster, Weapon Focus (Staff): 4d4+34 damage = ~44 damage = ~22 average damage.

Level 30 Wizard, new MM. 30 Intelligence, +6 Staff of Missile Mastery: 26 damage.

So overall, assuming you hit half the time, the power hasn't taken a huge nerf. There are downsides - if you hit more often, then the previous version obviously is better. Much more relevant - you can't crit with the new one. That's pretty big.

On the other hand, absolute guaranteed damage is very nice. Enemies have enough crazy tricks at higher levels that automatic damage can be more than worthwhile. Especially since the wizard probably has a second at-will that does add all the normal bonuses, and they can use whenever it is more beneficial to do so.

I don't really think they needed to make the change. But it doesn't ruin the power and it doesn't break the math of the game. Overall, I think it's fine.

 

[babinro]

Great post MrMyth, I don't believe the power breaks the game either. It is well balanced while still feeling overpowered for an at-will. I suspect it'll become like twin strike in that every wizard should take it as one of their at-wills.

This change was by no means needed, as being a ranged basic attack has its advantages especially from up to 20 squares away...but I must admit the autohit nostalgia of magic missile should make lots of people happy. Good errata for the haters of 4e, one less thing to hate.

 

[Nightfly]

But Nifft is right, it is weaker.

I like your number crunching, but saying it does less damage at level 30 is not the same thing as saying that it's flatly "weaker". The new MM clearly does more damage at level 1, and that's just as valid a case as level 30. (Probably more so, since I'm guessing there are many, many more players in heroic tier than epic). But even saying that it's stronger in epic is an oversimplification, because you have to factor in things like superior cover that would make the auto-hit property of the new MM much more valuable in a given situation. Not to mention that there are minions in epic, too.

But I'm not sure why the average damage matters that much anyway to a controller. I don't think anyone would say Scorching Burst is an objectively "stronger" power than Winged Horde, just because it does more damage. And even if single-target at-will damage is that important, there are still three wizard at-wills that do 1d8/2d8 damage, a negligible downgrade from the old Magic Missile's 2d4/4d4, especially since those other powers add solid controller effects. So how do we conclude that combats will take longer? With respect, I'm still not seeing that.

 

[Aegeri]

I don't think MM is that great to be honest and won't be an essential part of every wizard. Psychic lock is better for keywords and effects, without the range and yeah you need to hit. Other than psychic lock I would be taking chilling cloud or scorching burst (if I'm a blaster wizard) over MM. MM now has a place though and isn't going to be the most poorly regarded at-will.

Edit: In terms of control the new MM is pretty poor at it, except maybe for finishing off chronic HP enemies without the usual comedy of errors. Winged Horde is superior in terms of control to Scorching Burst clearly, but sometimes different people build for different things. Ultimately it's important to remember that the best condition you can impose in 4E is dead.

 

[Nifft]

Level 30 Wizard, pre-Errata MM. 30 Intelligence, +6 Deadly Staff of Ruin, +6 off-hand Implement and Dual Implement Spellcaster, Weapon Focus (Staff): 4d4+34 damage = ~44 damage = ~22 average damage.

Plus crits. Crits are actually rather important, given how many things key off of them at Epic level.

Crits are not just nice for the extra damage, they can grant things like recovering your Encounter powers and spending Surges.

With a Staff of Ruin, that's a 10% chance for max damage (50) + 6d10 + any other nastiness that you add to a crit (+1d10 for a feat, +1d10 for a war ring).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Prestidigitalis]

It's a lot more than that once you remember how many different things add to damage when you get past 1st level. My Wizard at 12th level gets:
- Enhancement
- Enhancement again (Dual Implement Spellcaster)
- Weapon Focus (Staff)
- Power bonuses (from our leader)

The new version still gets the enhancement bonus -- but you probably knew that, being a mighty penguin and all.