D&D 4E Essentials isn't 4.5e, but is 4e as we know it over?

[Thanlis]

I see it as a question of whether the phb 1 - is marketably attractive... which goes beyond whether the class builds are very subtly different or distinct.

I see this essentials newbie looking at that book with un patched core rules, the same races they already have rules on how to play with, and very subtly different builds and comparing that to other books like ones with new races and brawling fighters and summoner wizards ie ... very boldly different class builds.

I see phb as plummeting almost immediately to the least likely purchase and for the most part least useful purchase for somebody who has this shiney new essentials rules.

I think the PHB will be a fairly unattractive purchase for most of the reasons you lay out -- but I think DDI will continue to be a very attractive purchase, and I think that'll prevent the older class builds and classes from vanishing.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I see it as a question of whether the phb 1 - is marketably attractive... which goes beyond whether the class builds are very subtly different or distinct.

I see this essentials newbie looking at that book with un patched core rules, the same races they already have rules on how to play with, and very subtly different builds and comparing that to other books like ones with new races and brawling fighters and summoner wizards ie ... very boldly different class builds.

I see phb as plummeting almost immediately to the least likely purchase and for the most part least useful purchase for somebody who has this shiney new essentials rules.

The only smart move would be sell a new version of PHB 1. With all erratas incorporated. This way nothing will fade out of existence.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Nope. But based on the examples we've seen so far, I can see plenty of flavor reasons to keep playing the old versions in addition to the new ones. I disagree with the assertion that they're meant as replacements.

This is where we differ. It seems pretty obvious to me that the Essentials classes are exactly replacements for the PHB classes. That doesn't mean they WILL replace them for everyone, but they are aimed at the same spot. The person that wants to sling spells around doesn't need the PHB wizard classes, they have the Mage classes that do virtually the same thing. If you really find that you absolutely have to have Staff of Defense or love rituals and don't want to pay for the feat etc then you can certainly play the older class.

I don't think its a big deal, improved refreshed classes are OK. I just don't know how one can look at Warpriest and not see a class designed to displace the STR cleric with a melee cleric that works better.

 

[mkill]

* nevermind *

 

[Scribble]

This is where we differ. It seems pretty obvious to me that the Essentials classes are exactly replacements for the PHB classes. That doesn't mean they WILL replace them for everyone, but they are aimed at the same spot.

So what?

If there isn't a mechanical boon that makes picking one a choice that will leave you way underpowered then it's just a personal taste thing.

So what if the majority of people prefer one over another?

Having different builds, and different starting points within the same basic game framework allows for more options, and more ability for the game to meet people's needs.

If they were to remove the old classes from the CB... sure that might cause some issues for me... But as long as they don't- AWESOME... More classes and ways to play the game.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This is where we differ. It seems pretty obvious to me that the Essentials classes are exactly replacements for the PHB classes. That doesn't mean they WILL replace them for everyone, but they are aimed at the same spot. The person that wants to sling spells around doesn't need the PHB wizard classes, they have the Mage classes that do virtually the same thing. If you really find that you absolutely have to have Staff of Defense or love rituals and don't want to pay for the feat etc then you can certainly play the older class.

I don't think its a big deal, improved refreshed classes are OK. I just don't know how one can look at Warpriest and not see a class designed to displace the STR cleric with a melee cleric that works better.

You are pretty close minded then... i have no problems seeing the advantage of a priest that emphasises on strength and wisdom... it is just, that dwarves will be better off using the newer choice...

 

[Garthanos]

I think the PHB will be a fairly unattractive purchase for most of the reasons you lay out -- but I think DDI will continue to be a very attractive purchase, and I think that'll prevent the older class builds and classes from vanishing.

3 out of 4 households I purchase/will make D&D purchases for (2 are coming up ... yup around xmas time), do not have nice reliable internet access.
I see it as being problematic.

 

[Scribble]

3 out of 4 households I purchase/will make D&D purchases for (2 are coming up ... yup around xmas time), do not have nice reliable internet access.
I see it as being problematic.

Maybe...

But I kind of get the feeling the majority of D&D players these days will have DDI.

No hard facts on it obviously... But... I mean I think it's a safe assumption... Just like the majority of Xbox 360 owners I would say have xbox live...

 

[Thanlis]

3 out of 4 households I purchase/will make D&D purchases for (2 are coming up ... yup around xmas time), do not have nice reliable internet access.

As of December 2009, 74% of adults in the US used the Internet. Sadly, Pew doesn't break down the numbers for D&D players.

 

[ggroy]

No hard facts on it obviously... But... I mean I think it's a safe assumption... Just like the majority of Xbox 360 owners I would say have xbox live...

I'm one of the few which does not use xbox live at all.