Pathfinder 1E Paizo = Play WoTC = Pay?

[gamerprinter]

Erik Mona has said this more than once...

For those that keep implying that Paizo with its adventure paths are railroading you and forcing you to play their setting, yet Erik Mona has stated in more than one instance that half or more of the people who buy APs never actually play them, they simply raid them for source material for their own games. To the point that adventures have always been just that - resources, not the primary means of playing the game.

I've purchased dozens of adventures over the last 30+ years, and except for the first five years where I relied on published adventures, I don't think I've 'played' any of the adventures I've purchased. They were either great reading material, or a source of good way to present a particular encounter.

I play PF, I have the Core, the Bestiary and will soon pick up the Advanced Players Guide. However, at least for now, I don't plan on ever buying an AP, I've been doing this too long - I always make my own adventures.

So Paizo products are cheaper for me, less hard bounds to buy, and of the secondary products - I don't buy them at all. The secondaries from Paizo are more than APs though... gamemastery decks, map packs, etc.

And though I played 3e for 6 or 7 years, I only own four 3e books - PH, DMG, PH2, Lords of Madness, that's it. I've never been one to buy a 100 splats, and probably never will of anybody's game system. The Paizo idea of putting out the three or four splats a year, is much closer to my buying habits anyway.

GP

 

[Desdichado]

Paizo = RAILROAD. Get on the approved adventure path, don't you dare think or improvise, you are LOCKED IN for the next 20 levels. Sucker.

Actually, the adventure paths only take you to about 15th level or so.

To be technical.

 

[Henry]

For those that keep implying that Paizo with its adventure paths are railroading you and forcing you to play their setting, yet Erik Mona has stated in more than one instance that half or more of the people who buy APs never actually play them, they simply raid them for source material for their own games. To the point that adventures have always been just that - resources, not the primary means of playing the game.

I've purchased dozens of adventures over the last 30+ years, and except for the first five years where I relied on published adventures, I don't think I've 'played' any of the adventures I've purchased. They were either great reading material, or a source of good way to present a particular encounter.

Our group HAS tried to run the Paizo AP Council of Thieves, and our DM stopped after the second installment - we just weren't gelling with it. In truth, it kind of concerns me that the APs ARE more resource material than module -- what does this mean for their playability? As I noted, our experiences have been good with the game rules, but not so much with the modules.

 

[Wicht]

Our group HAS tried to run the Paizo AP Council of Thieves, and our DM stopped after the second installment - we just weren't gelling with it. In truth, it kind of concerns me that the APs ARE more resource material than module -- what does this mean for their playability? As I noted, our experiences have been good with the game rules, but not so much with the modules.

Tastes vary, but Council of Thieves is not generally regarded as being one of the better APs. Second Darkness also has problems. Rise of the RuneLord plays well most of the way through. Legacy of Fire runs pretty well and Kingmaker gets nothing but rave reviews, though I doubt many have played all the way through it. Curse of the Crimson Throne is pretty playable too, though many thought the venture out of city to be badly planned.

 

[TarionzCousin]

But since I make almost all my own adventures (or get ideas from folks on EN World for just $3 a month), I don't mind.

You can't steal ideas from here; that's my schtick!

What everyone so far has failed to take into account (probably because of its complete lack of relevance) is the fact that both WotC and Paizo are headquartered in Washington State. Coincidence? I think not!

 

[ggroy]

Tastes vary, but Council of Thieves is not generally regarded as being one of the better APs. Second Darkness also has problems. Rise of the RuneLord plays well most of the way through. Legacy of Fire runs pretty well and Kingmaker gets nothing but rave reviews, though I doubt many have played all the way through it. Curse of the Crimson Throne is pretty playable too, though many thought the venture out of city to be badly planned.

Our group HAS tried to run the Paizo AP Council of Thieves, and our DM stopped after the second installment - we just weren't gelling with it. In truth, it kind of concerns me that the APs ARE more resource material than module -- what does this mean for their playability? As I noted, our experiences have been good with the game rules, but not so much with the modules.

Over the last two years, I've largely used the Pathfinder AP books as "resource material". I've never bothered running any of them from beginning to end.

As far as I'm concerned, the Pathfinder APs are like the spiritual "successor" to Dungeon Magazine, even though I don't play Pathfinder and I don't really like to play or DM games using the 3.5/Pathfinder ruleset these days. I suppose I like reading adventures, just like reading Dungeon Magazine back in the day. Even when I stopped playing rpg games altogether for 15+ years (over the 1990's), I still read Dungeon Magazine for awhile until I reluctantly gave it up.

 

[ggroy]

But... if adventurers slow down, I can't necessarily see Paizo doing the player supplement trend. I think we'd see a second edition before that happened. But I easily admit I could be wrong.

Hopefully Paizo won't go the "bloat" route of producing tons of Mongoose style "Quintessential" crunch-heavy type books for every class, race, etc ...

 

[gamerprinter]

What everyone so far has failed to take into account (probably because of its complete lack of relevance) is the fact that both WotC and Paizo are headquartered in Washington State. Coincidence? I think not!

Of course that's only because when WotC who is located in Washington state, bought TSR, the headquarters flew west. So when Paizo originally being the magazine publisher, being closer to WotC was better for them.

I'd rather see both RPG companies 'come home' - I live in Illinois, Lake Geneva is much closer to me than Washington state... (I can't justify going to a Paizocon ever, its not in Wisconsin!)

GP

 

[ggroy]

I don't think 4e has that. I may be completely wrong on that field. I occassioanlly here someone talk about the 1st adventure, Keep, as it's online for free and has some supplemental material, but it seems that the online supplemental material stopped around P1? My apologies if I'm wrong on that but I recall bits to augment the adventure, bits to put it into FR or Eberron and other bonus material.

The only thing I found useful about the 4E WotC modules produced over the last two years or so, is seeing how combat encounters are constructed and designed. Otherwise I didn't really play any of them straight through, other than "Keep on the Shadowfell" and "Thunderspire Labyrinth" as a way of becoming familiar with the 4E ruleset and style of DMing.

 

[Shemeska]

Hopefully Paizo won't go the "bloat" route of producing tons of Mongoose style "Quintessential" crunch-heavy type books for every class, race, etc ...

Mona today went out of his way to mention that their rate of producing books that introduce any new rules is being very paced so as to specifically avoid any possibility of rules bloat. It's a concern based on how other companies have done crunch heavy books, and it's something that they very much don't want to repeat.