Dwarves are not heroes...

[Reynard]

I googled your thread title to start searching for the Hobbit quote. 'Dwarves are not heroes' was the third thing that came up for me. I posted it here. Even in the wikipedia entry, Tolkien's quotes about his development of Middle-Earth dwarves mentions parallels to real world cultures.

Read the article, its not what you think it is.

C.I.D.

I've read it. The issue was the tone of your language.

 

[Jared Rascher]

You know, having really embraced the stronger pulp flavoring that Pathfinder has thrown back into d20 fantasy, I'm finding that, to my way of thinking, all of the "standard" races make a lot more sense if viewed less heroically.

Dwarves really make more sense as Lawful neutral (I really liked how they portrayed dwarven culture in Dragon Age). Heck, even going back to 2nd edition AD&D sources, most of the dwarven subspecies in Dragonlance were listed as Lawful neutral, which made perfect sense to me.

Elves make a lot more sense as Chaotic neutral. How many times do elves end up kind of sitting back and shaking their heads as humans ruin the world, but pretty much hide out in their own lands patting each other on the back and congratulating each other for not being as bad as the humans they are doing nothing to stop or (gasp) educate.

Halflings are humans with their more sedentary traits writ large (so to speak), so it makes perfect sense for them to be true Neutral.

 

[WizarDru]

In 1938, Tolkien had written a razor-tongued reply to the German firm Rütten und Loening Verlag, who, upon negotiating the publication of a German translation of The Hobbit, dared to ask Tolkien if he was "arisch" [Aryan]. Tolkien replied with insulting philological precision that since he was not aware that any of his "ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects," he could not claim to be Aryan.

He adds, "but if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people."


He then continues with an explanation of his German name (Tolkien's ancestors immigrated to England in the eighteenth century), and closes with the following:

I have been accustomed . . . to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war . . . . I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.

In a letter to his own publishers about the same issue Tolkien calls the German race laws "lunatic" and notes "I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable . . . and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine."

 

[Particle_Man]

For what it is worth, Dwarves are listed as Lawful Neutral in Castles and Crusades.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Here is how Talib, Dwarf Bard, and a fighter for the rights of the oppressed and excluded everywhere, responds to this vicious discrimination.

but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money

"You'd have a great idea of money's value to, if everyone else was always takin' yours. Goblins. Orcs. Giants. We've been slaves for most of our ancestry, and soldiers for the parts that we were free. Gold to us is victory. Security. Our walls, separating us from outsiders that wanna cut us down, in body and in soul. When you're making war as a way of life, you realize how much things cost."

some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots

"Ah, you're just jealous. You wish you were this smart, this clever, this dangerous. You wish you had respect like that. Man, why you gotta hate? If I'm saving your village, you're all 'Oooh, Talib, you're so smart and awesome, so edgy and cool,' ladies all 'Take me back to your inn room, sexy!', but if I'm just hanging out in my hut smokin' some herb, it's all 'tricky and trecherous and pretty bad lots.' Man, F--- you!"

some are not, but are decent enough people... if you don't expect too much.

"Yeah. And I suppose some humans can be racist."

 

[prosfilaes]

but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people... if you don't expect too much.
EDIT: The Hobbit, Chapter XII

Huh. Put that in your lawful good pipe and smoke it.

I do wonder how, given dwarves and elves as described, how they are any more good then humans on the whole. Of course, drop elves, dwarves and halflings off the good rolls, and then the list of good humanoids is the gnomes.

 

[kiznit]

Elves are not heroes...

They're eco-terrorists who pee in your wineskin when they're on watch and you're sleeping.

I thought this was okay since I pretty much assumed elves just pee wine...?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Dwarves are petty-bourgeois and enemies of the proletariat. Their class consciousness must be increased before they can become heroes.

 

[GreyLord]

Darn elves! I knew it! I'm afraid what gnomes are truly like.

There's a reason they were considered monsters at first in 4e...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Dwarves really make more sense as Lawful neutral (I really liked how they portrayed dwarven culture in Dragon Age). Heck, even going back to 2nd edition AD&D sources, most of the dwarven subspecies in Dragonlance were listed as Lawful neutral, which made perfect sense to me.

Dragon Age is FANTASTIC for the dwarf culture and lore.