How to stop a Warden?

[Viktyr Gehrig]

The Warden has actually told the other players that they couldn't last one round against him and, in game, has told them to leave mobs alone and let him "handle it" as if the other players don't matter and their contribution would only screw things up.

I see that this is a group of people that is supposed to be friends and I am not sure what to do. I do not want to kill anyone, I do not want to be angry with the Warden, and I don't want anyone to hate anyone else. The player is ruining the campaign for everyone else, and it is not fair.

Oh, now that is an entirely different kettle of fish. Either your player is a jerk, or he's playing a character that's a jerk-- which, in most cases, is just an excuse for being a jerk. Tell him that his attitude doesn't work, and he can either play nicely with everyone else or find a new game.

 

[Miio]

Oh, now that is an entirely different kettle of fish. Either your player is a jerk, or he's playing a character that's a jerk-- which, in most cases, is just an excuse for being a jerk. Tell him that his attitude doesn't work, and he can either play nicely with everyone else or find a new game.

The character isn't a jerk, the player is.

 

[mneme]

Miio: ok, that puts another spin on it.

It sounds like it's become a player problem. I'd talk with the players in question. The player may just be roleplaying--or he may be being a jerk, but either way you need to know which way it's going.

For that matter, it sounds like this thread is feeding into the problem. One thing that may not be clear to the warden's player is that a high defense warden isn't really anything close to untouchable. They've got high defenses, and decent damage--but nothing close to the damage the rest of the party can put out (and if not, the rest of the party is doing it wrong). Put them up against anything that would threaten the rest of the party -without- support from the rest of the group and they'll wail ineffectually against the enemy for a while and fall over.

Now, "stand back, I'll handle this" is totally reasonable from a warden--particularly if he's -also- expecting his allies to wittle down the foes with ranged attacks. But it sounds like you either have a personality issue or a communication issue (or both); -not- a system balance issue.

Now, if the issue is really -everyone- wanting to know whether the warden is more powerful than the entire rest of the party put together, I could see testing it directly (I'd want the warden player -and- the rest of the party's buy in, though). Set up a split challenge with identical forces on two sides of the room. So the party has to split--and if the warden player wants to show off, he can try to handle one side while the party handles the other. I guaruntee you, even aside from the party side of the room finishing long before the warden side does, if the challenge is at all a challenge for 3 PCs, the party will, if they hang back and let the warden solo the other half of the combat, get to see him drop and -then- get to come in to the rescue (but it might make your point--that the warden is -part- of the party, not a whole party in himself).

But if the issue is the player being a jerk and you can't get him to tone it down...it's probably time to find a new defender.

Also, Miio, it's at this point worth asking, is your husband (who iirc is the GM of group you play in) a player here? Because if so, that raises the tension by another notch.

 

[Miio]

When he told everyone to stand back and get out of the room, he was going to solo 3 object mimics. He keeps refusing to recognize that our Warlord has more AC than him. The player told the Warlord that he has no business being on the front lines because he isn't a defender. He pretty much shoo'd the party away in his only attempt to "defend" the party. No one left the room, the warlock totally raped the mimics. The Warden's player claimed that he killed the mimics himself after the last one fell.

As the DM, I stated "You may have made the final blow on two of them, but you did nowhere near the most damage. Aztal did the most damage and was the only reason you could make final blows on two of the mimics."

As angry as I am with his attitude, I have so far been the nicest person at the table. He argues with my rulings and he puts others down.

As per the advice of others, I will attempt to talk to the player for a second time.

And yes, my husband is the Warlord.

 

[Nullzone]

Goodness, that puts it in a wholly different light. By all means talk to the players. This has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the people playing it. You all need to come to an agreeable standing on the matter or the problem will continue to suck the fun out of it for at least someone, if not everyone.

Being argumentative and carrying a superiority complex is not the way to play a largely cooperative game.

 

[Incenjucar]

Being argumentative and carrying a superiority complex is not the way to play a largely cooperative game.

This. These are the players that tarnish the hobby's reputation and keep people from wanting to get involved.

Hopefully the player can be brought around to reason and empathy.

 

[Miio]

Keep in mind that it wasn't this bad to start with.

And for those of you who wanted to know the outcome of an encounter based on your advice:
Last night I used a Level 5 Beholder and a Level 6 Ghost Beholder combined with a ward that needed to be deactivated. Once the Beholder was down, he became a Ghost Beholder. All the while, there was a Level 7 Ward throwing people around that were within three of it. Because the players have been making their way to rescue a family artifact, one of four Tuso Relics, and they already had one, the Warlock held the Tuso Diving Top and was unaffected by the Ward as he disabled it. The ward only lasted 3 rounds, the players downed the Beholder in the same 3 rounds. The Ghost Beholder was fought without the ward. Everyone liked the encounter.

It was a good challenge for the group. I actually ended up with two completely untouched players! The encounter freaked them out, like I wanted, and they ultimately succeeded.

Edit: The Warlord switched to Paladin. His first night as a Paladin was last night.

 

[mneme]

FWIW, painting the warden's behavior in the best light I can (and bearing in mind that that doesn't hit him taking credit for shared kills), I have to wonder if he's trying to be more "defendery" as a reaction to your claims here that (effectively) he was a glory hound who didn't care about defending.

The two stage beholder/trap encounter sounds like a lot of fun--combined skill challenge/combat encounters are (when used as bossfights and other uncommon encounters) some of the more fun encounters in this game, and this one sounds like it worked well [although...did warlock end up being effective? Not sure whether his disabling the ward ended up ultimately contributing to the fight).

How many players do you have? Between Warlord, Warlock, and Warden, that's a lot of W's!

 

[Ryujin]

It's a pity that the Ranger isn't a "Two-Blade." Between him, and the Warlord, they could show the Warden just why co-operation is infinitely superior to solo work.

 

[OnlineDM]

Here's a question for you as the DM: IS the Warden more powerful than the other characters? If this player is an optimizer and the others aren't, it's quite possible that the Warden is on a higher power curve than the rest of the party.

This is a problem for a group that's going to have fun together for the long term. I talked about that in this blog post. If you have one character that's far more powerful or far less powerful than the rest of the group, it hurts the group's fun. Either the overpowered character is never challenged (it sounds like this is where you've been in the past), or the rest of the party is getting destroyed. Either way, it's a problem.

If I run into this in my groups, I talk to the outlier players and try to bring things in line. Combat should be fun for the whole table (it's not everything, but it's certainly part of the fun), and that's hard to have happen if one character is out of line with the power level of the party.

Now, maybe I'm reading your situation wrong and it's not that the Warden is legitimately more powerful than the rest of the party - he just THINKS he is - but if he really is above their level, you might want to consider talking to him to see if he can rejigger things to bring his character in line.