Dragon 399 - Heroes of Tome and Temple

[I'm A Banana]

I really like the Seer's basic "roll 3 d20's and those are the target's next 3 rolls" ability. That is a lot of fun, dang flavorful, and interesting, to boot. I like the "your target doesn't know if their fortune is good or bad unless you tell them" bit.

I've got a Paladin who is likely to be interested in the Ordained Priest.

Scholar has another nifty basic ability, though I am unenthused by the "Learn every language that exists!" ability...mostly because it exposes how pointless languages are in D&D, by and large...

Something I'm really digging is the mixing of power sources. If I'm a rogue devoted to Avandra, I can take an Ordained Priest ability. If I'm a Paladin of Ioun, perhaps Scholar will appeal to me. I could be a Deva (anything) and the Seer would be pretty evocative.

I still kind of miss the whole "you can define your adventuring career with your theme" idea that the Dark Sun themes had, but I don't mind these at all. I suppose it's smart to keep people picking class powers anyway, as much as I might like to loosen those bonds as much as possible.

I'm not WOW'd by anything here yet, but they've all been pretty interesting.

 

[Neonchameleon]

No Order Adepts in there - and no Animal Masters. The seer is nice but will cause trouble, and the other three are good (I'm slightly sceptical about the scholar - and does that bonus to damage work against all targets if they are the same type?) Ordained Priest is just all round well done.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think, knowing all languages is too benefical. Chose 3 or so at level 10 would be sufficient...

I like the deciver script ability however... it was one of my favourite skills back in ADnD...

 

[Aegeri]

Ordained Priest is what they should be. Genuinely adds to any class who wants a meaningful secondary leader role (or give you other options for that if you already are a leader), plus gives two GREAT options for melee and implement users respectively. It's by far my favorite theme out of these. I'm hoping for more themes to be like the Ordained Priest.

I do expect though they will have a go over and edit many of these before the end of the month based on feedback.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

They're all pretty good. I can see some players trying to pull a few shenanigans with the "roll 3 d20" seer thing, but the DM should be able to easily step on that (and it is nice that they went out of their way to reinforce that). All of these should work fine, provide some solid but modest benefits, and should definitely provide some nice mechanical support for the character's concept. Overall themes are looking pretty good.

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm amused at the seer power. I had nearly the same power planned for a ZEITGEIST character theme.

From the 4e house rules forum:

Three Visions
You share with your allies a glimpse of the motions of the heavens, revealing fortuitous and unfortuitous paths.
Encounter * Primal
Minor Action Close burst 5
Target: One ally in burst

Effect: The target rolls three d20s and notes their results in order.

On the target’s next turn, the first time it would make an attack roll, it instead uses the first d20 as if it had rolled that result on the die. On its next turn thereafter, it uses the second d20 for its first attack roll. On its next turn after that, it uses the third d20 for its first attack roll.



We went a slightly different way with the final version.

 

[Mengu]

I really like the Ordained Priest. The encounter powers are good, whichever one you pick, and the +2 religion and insight makes me happy.

Scholar I'm not too terribly impressed with. But it does serve a niche that likes to know a lot of languages. The encounter power is a bit weird. You never have to use the power unless you hit a hard DC. So the fail condition seems to be a moot point. Also the bonus being Intelligence based makes it rather narrow in who can use the theme. We apparently can't have a scholarly cleric.

The Seer theme is conceptually pretty awesome. If there is an AoE attacker like a wizard or sorcerer in the party, I think I would target them this power more frequently than anyone else. Knowing that you can miss the fighter in the middle of a bunch of enemies is about as priceless as knowing when you're about to get a crit. Just hope you don't have to roll a saving throw when your 20 is up. Of course, when my 20 is up, I wouldn't mind making an intimidate check against a bloodied enemy either. though that's not likely to come up much since the 3 rolls will get used up quickly.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I really like the Ordained Priest. The encounter powers are good, whichever one you pick, and the +2 religion and insight makes me happy.

Scholar I'm not too terribly impressed with. But it does serve a niche that likes to know a lot of languages. The encounter power is a bit weird. You never have to use the power unless you hit a hard DC. So the fail condition seems to be a moot point. Also the bonus being Intelligence based makes it rather narrow in who can use the theme. We apparently can't have a scholarly cleric.

The Seer theme is conceptually pretty awesome. If there is an AoE attacker like a wizard or sorcerer in the party, I think I would target them this power more frequently than anyone else. Knowing that you can miss the fighter in the middle of a bunch of enemies is about as priceless as knowing when you're about to get a crit. Just hope you don't have to roll a saving throw when your 20 is up. Of course, when my 20 is up, I wouldn't mind making an intimidate check against a bloodied enemy either. though that's not likely to come up much since the 3 rolls will get used up quickly.

I would say ANYONE who is a scholar would have high INT. Who ever heard of a dumb scholar? OTOH even having a modest INT you'll still be pretty effective with the various bonuses. In a sense it IS narrow, but OTOH being a low WIS ordained priest isn't that great either, is it?

 

[Mengu]

I would say ANYONE who is a scholar would have high INT. Who ever heard of a dumb scholar? OTOH even having a modest INT you'll still be pretty effective with the various bonuses. In a sense it IS narrow, but OTOH being a low WIS ordained priest isn't that great either, is it?

Other themes didn't seem to have such restrictions, it just felt odd. I can be a fighter, hunter, battlemind, or bard, and be animal master, eventhough traditionally animal handling is tied to wisdom. Even for ordained priest, my enchanter gnome wizard can be the ordained priest of Oghma, my halfling rogue can be the ordained priest of Tymora, my half-elf "brought up among elves" bard can be the ordained priest of Corellon. Odd restriction that you can't be a good scholarly monk, or priest.

I don't like stats anyway, but that's another topic.

 

[Kinneus]

Now this is more like it!

Although I forsee players making stupid, pointless skill checks in order to "cut through the chaff" of the Seer's ability. But then, I guess that's sort of the point. If you know you're going to roll a 1, then you're probably going to go with a basic attack over a Daily.