spellcasting dip for monk

[Dingleberry]

I was looking at possibly playing a monk in my first Pathfinder campaign, and thought that a dip into a spontaneous spellcasting class could be a big help - especially at lower levels - to get a little help to, e.g., AC. Unfortunately, the only spontaneous caster class (we're limited to main book and APG) that isn't tied to a dump monk stat (Charisma) is the Inquisitor, and that just didn't seem like a good fit. So I decided to skip the monk and play an oracle instead...

But then I saw the "Sidestep" revelation for the "Lore" Mystery oracle, which uses Cha instead of Dex for AC and Reflex saves. So instead of Cha being the dump stat, Dex is - and with an oracle dip, my monk gets a few spells off the cleric list (automatically including CLW) to help keep him alive. Sure, he won't be able to Tumble so well or hit the broad side of a barn with shuriken, but he will be able to use some wands/etc. Heck, if I wanted to go really crazy, I could also take a dip in sorcerer to get a bloodline power, a bunch more low-level spells and the ability to use magic items from the sorcerer/wizard list.

Aside from the obvious problem of sucking at Dex-based skills and being behind on monk levels, am I missing any big risks?

 

[pawsplay]

I wouldn't bother with sorcerer. If you're that crazy about that idea of slinging some arcane spells, just take Skill Focus (UMD) and call it a day.

I usually dump Dex to some degree anyway. After all, you can lose your Dex bonus to AC, but Wisdom is forever. Unless I'm doing something funky involving Weapon Finesse, I usually go Str > Wis > Con > Dex > Int > Cha.

For your build, probably Str > Wis > Cha > Con > Dex > Int.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why does it need to be a spontaneous caster? Do you just dislike the book keeping of a prepared caster, or is it the extra spells per day?

 

[Dingleberry]

Why does it need to be a spontaneous caster? Do you just dislike the book keeping of a prepared caster, or is it the extra spells per day?

Mostly the extra spells per day, since his low caster level will mean shorter durations. Also, I'm really just looking for a few key spells to help AC, etc.

I wouldn't bother with sorcerer. If you're that crazy about that idea of slinging some arcane spells, just take Skill Focus (UMD) and call it a day.

But having the easy option of being able to cast expeditious retreat or true strike) along with protection from evil or entropic shield is so shiny!

I usually dump Dex to some degree anyway. After all, you can lose your Dex bonus to AC, but Wisdom is forever. Unless I'm doing something funky involving Weapon Finesse, I usually go Str > Wis > Con > Dex > Int > Cha.

For your build, probably Str > Wis > Cha > Con > Dex > Int.

All I really need in Cha is an 11 to cast 1st-level spells (12 if I want a bonus one), so depending on the point buy, I might even be able to keep Con ahead of it.

EDIT: Scratch that, I'm an idiot. Already forgot that Cha is going to drive AC and Ref saves.

 

[Dingo333]

Just wondering

Was there any reason in particular that made you push aside the inquisitor?

It is a wis based casting, only 1 level means the shorter progression is not so bad. Expeditious retreat and True Strike are both on the list, and if you take a second level you can get CLW too. Judgments will last the entire combat and provide +1 AC, more if you invest more in the class and you also get a domain to enhance yourself with

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Just wondering

Was there any reason in particular that made you push aside the inquisitor?

It is a wis based casting, only 1 level means the shorter progression is not so bad. Expeditious retreat and True Strike are both on the list, and if you take a second level you can get CLW too. Judgments will last the entire combat and provide +1 AC, more if you invest more in the class and you also get a domain to enhance yourself with

This. And while a little stereotypical, combining a religious "agent-man" with the monk seems a natural fit.

 

[Shisumo]

Can you make any push for Ultimate Magic? (especially now that it's on the PRD?) Because what you really need sounds like the empyreal sorcerer...

 

[Dingleberry]

Just wondering

Was there any reason in particular that made you push aside the inquisitor?

It is a wis based casting, only 1 level means the shorter progression is not so bad. Expeditious retreat and True Strike are both on the list, and if you take a second level you can get CLW too. Judgments will last the entire combat and provide +1 AC, more if you invest more in the class and you also get a domain to enhance yourself with

I had dismissed it based mostly just on the fluff - didn't like the idea of a monk using guile - but now that I take a deeper dive (and read the spell list correctly, which I hadn't before), the mechanics are a much better fit. And a true multiclass instead of a quick dip even seems workable.

Anybody ever seen a monquisitor in play?

 

[paradox42]

I saw a guy do one with Inquisitor/Zen Archer Monk to build basically a super-archer. He got bored with the character after three sessions though, so I didn't see it very long. What I did see was fairly impressive until the tanks got up to melee and started whacking things to pieces. Dude had by far the highest initiative in the party, something like +10 at 8th level, and did some sick damage with a bow.

This was many months ago and I never saw the actual character sheet, though, so I can't give you specific numbers or tell you how he got that sick initiative.

If you do manage to persuade the GM to allow Ultimate Magic, though, you might consider the Monk Archetype the book has- the Qigong Monk. It's not real spellcasting, but it's a lot more "supernatural" than the standard Monk class.

 

[DumbPaladin]

I'm sure there are tons of spells that are potentially useful to a monk, but one spell really jumps out at me: ki arrow.

This spell is pretty useless to a straight sorcerer or wizard -- it lets you do your unarmed strike damage with your arrow -- but to a Monk 19 / Sorcerer 1, it might be kinda nice...