Giving Initiative in Certain Situations

[Water Bob]

I've got an encounter I'm planning for my next game, and I'm trying to figure how to play it. I've mentioned the situation in a couple of threads, examining different aspects of this encounter. Here's the basic idea:

The scenario is this: The PCs will hear some screams from that top of the hill, and I expect they'll rush up there to investigate.

Once they get there, they'll see a wagon turned on its side, the two asses that were pulling it are dead and dying--a javeling clearly sticking out of the neck of one of the beasts. A couple of bodies laying about (dead or unconscious children). And, beyond the sided wagon, an enemy who is standing over an old woman--the children's protector. She's got a javelin pierced through her left hand, stapling her to the ground. She's making noises--clearly, she's out of it. And the bad guy that is standing over her will have his spear to her throat.

The spear to the throat is key in this encounter. The PCs all care about the grandma NPC on the ground, and they don't want to see her dead. The Grath warrior (the bad guy) is threatening to kill her if the PCs come any closer. "One more step, and by The Morrigan's black teats, I'll ram 'er through, I will."

My plan is to have the PCs see this, negotiate that obstacle, and then I want the Grath warrior to break and run, turning the encounter into a chase.

The Grath will run up and over a crest. There will be a couple of maneuvers as he runs down this slight grade of forrested skree, jumping over a log or through a "V" of twin trees growing.

The grade ends abruptly in a 40' cliff. The cliff happens to be about equal height to the branches on the trees growing from the valley floor below.

As the PC's chase him, the Grath will speed up as he gets to the cliff edge, and then jump, with all his might, catching himself in the branches of the closest tree.

I'm hoping the PCs will follow. I think they will (but, I have contingency plans if they don't), and this will lead into a neat, Tarzan-like chase through the branches, with the characters catching vines and swining to other trees, jumping down onto branches, climbing here, balancing there. If they catch him, there might be a neat melee fight amongst the brances of these giant trees.

And, if someone falls and survives, I've got some interesting things for that PC to face, down on the valley floor, too.

So, you get the idea of what I have in mind.







What I am thinking about is just giving the Grath the nish as the PCs approach. No rolling.

That's not quite by the rules, but it somehow seems appropriate. I mean, the Grath is already standing above Stenna (grandma) as the PCs come running up the road. I'm sure the PCs won't take any stealth measures to get there (if they do, I'll deal with it and possibly play the encounter differently). The Grath warrior will know they're coming. So, as they round the bend, the Grath puts his spear to Stenna's neck and begins to to shout as soon as he can make eye contact with the PCs, "I'll kill her, I will! Stop yer pace! Or, I'll send her to meet bloody Badb, I will!"



What do you think. Are there (or should there be) situations where, just by GM fiat, an NPC (or a PC) has gained initiative just by his actions and the situation--not by the random die throw.

If you're an Old School gamer (as I am), then this is a no brainer. Yep, do it.

If you're a New Schooler, you might feel robbed because the GM didn't allow you the chance to take initiatiave through die throws.

Your thoughts?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

What do you think. Are there (or should there be) situations where, just by GM fiat, an NPC (or a PC) has gained initiative just by his actions and the situation--not by the random die throw.

If you're an Old School gamer (as I am), then this is a no brainer. Yep, do it.

If you're a New Schooler, you might feel robbed because the GM didn't allow you the chance to take initiatiave through die throws.

Your thoughts?

Will your players care, since you have a particular agenda? If the answer is no, than you're set. If the answer is maybe/yes, than explain for them to hold on, you've got something cool planned.

 

[anest1s]

It depends.

You fudge it, or you announce that you just get the initiative?

If I roll with my rogue 27 initiative, and you still play first, well I won't like it.

If you say ''ok guys everyone roll initiative, except me'', there will be for sure someone who won't like it.

So my general advice would be ''don't do it''.

 

[Water Bob]

Will your players care, since you have a particular agenda? If the answer is no, than you're set. If the answer is maybe/yes, than explain for them to hold on, you've got something cool planned.

I might have a plan, and I try to predict what I think the players will do. But, in-game, my policy is to never railroad the players. They can easily do something I don't predict, and if they do, I'll ad-lib my way around the scenario to include the actions of the PCs.

They may even get some genius thought and take the NPC before he starts the chase in spite of my pre-planning against that. If that happens in the game, then so be it.

I don't like railroading. I'll let the PCs spoil my pre-thought plot. It's my job as GM to have contingency plans.

I allow entire scenarios to be changed by PC actions. I think the players really appreciate this and get a real sense that they are the masters of their own destiny even though I set up encounters, like this, with pre-thought plots.

 

[kitcik]

1) Why talk this way about the monk caravaners "they'll see a wagon turned on its side, the two asses that were pulling it are dead and dying" - seems a bit harsh. I mean, ok they were monks and got taken out by 1 Grath dude, but still...

2) Initiative is not realistic. All actions should be declared simultaneously (everyone can just yell out on the count of 3), then be adjudicated by the DM as far as what happens when, depending on the realistic speed of what they want to do.

3) Why doesn't the caster just Grease the edge of the cliff... whoops! that encounter is over.

 

[Water Bob]

1) Why talk this way about the monk caravaners "they'll see a wagon turned on its side, the two asses that were pulling it are dead and dying" - seems a bit harsh. I mean, ok they were monks and got taken out by 1 Grath dude, but still...

Are you serious? The "asses" are donkeys. Cart pulled by two asses. Used to pull the cart up the treacherous mountain terrain.

And just to be clear, the cart isn't being used by monks. It's being used by an old lady (Commoner Trapper) and four kids, from age 4-12.

Oh, and I didn't mention this, either, but there is a second Grath warrior hiding behind the cart that is on its side. He just beheaded one of the kids and tied the head by its hair to the wagon wheel. These Grath are savage sonofabitches. As the PCs come running up the trail, he ducks behind the wagon.

At least, that's the plan. When it played out...who knows? I've had more than one "plan" go haywire due to the PC actions. I don't try to railroad or pin them into a certain line of action. I just set up events, try to predict what they'll do. Set up contingency plans, and then stay versatile and willing to ad-lib when the actual game session occurs.

3) Why doesn't the caster just Grease the edge of the cliff... whoops! that encounter is over.

I didn't mention it above, because it wasn't material to the thread, but I'm running a Conan RPG game. There are no casters in the PC group.

 

[anest1s]

If your plan is to have the PCs go after them, why not have him grab the head of the kid and run? I don't think the PCs will go after him for no reason. Especially if they are leaving a loved NPC bleeding to death behind.

I fail to see how he can possibly escape. If he runs he will eat a ton of ranged attacks. If he withdraws everyone will run around him. If anyone comes close to him he gets grappled.

 

[Water Bob]

double post

 

[Water Bob]

If your plan is to have the PCs go after them, why not have him grab the head of the kid and run? I don't think the PCs will go after him for no reason. Especially if they are leaving a loved NPC bleeding to death behind.

That's another thing I left out to keep the OP short. I didn't think it important to the question.

There's a fifth kid, a little 4 year old girl. She runs around with a tin bowl on her head. That's her "helmet". The players love this little NPC. I think they see their own daughters in her.

Yep, you guessed it. She's not among the kids at the ambush. She left the village with Stenna and the other kids in the wagon, but, at the scene of the slaughter, she's not among them.

I'm pretty sure that the PCs will chase this guy.

We'll see.

I fail to see how he can possibly escape. If he runs he will eat a ton of ranged attacks.

Three PC's. All Barbarians (Cimmerians, in Conan's Hyborian Age).

The PCs are quite young at this point. All 1st level. None of them have been confirmed as "warriors" for the clan yet. They average 14 years old.

One carries two hatchets. He'll probably throw one of them and keep the other for melee, but he might throw both.

The other two PCs have hunting spears and knives. I'm looking at a max of 4 ranged attacks.

And, hey, if they all hit and kill these two NPCs, then it's contingency plan time.

If he withdraws everyone will run around him. If anyone comes close to him he gets grappled.

That's one of the reasons that he starts the scenario off with his spear pressed to the neck of Stenna. As soon as he sees the PCs come around the bend, he'll warn them, "Stop yer feet, you Blue Fox men. Stop yer feet and hold yer pace, or by Badb's bloody hand, I'll run this bitch through."

If they don't stop, he'll attempt a coup de grace on Stenna and then run for the cliff and the trees.

I think, from the scenario set-up, that he's got a good chance of getting away.

If he doesn't, then, hey, that's more XP for the players, and I'll kick in Contingency Plan #1.

I'd like to have this particular Grath become a recurring nemesis for the party, but I can't control that. Only try to make it happen.

 

[anest1s]

If they don't stop, he'll attempt a coup de grace on Stenna and then run for the cliff and the trees.

coup de grace is a full round action while you can ready only a standard action, and she would have to be helpless anyway...

If he doesn't, then, hey, that's more XP for the players, and I'll kick in Contingency Plan #1.

I'd like to have this particular Grath become a recurring nemesis for the party, but I can't control that. Only try to make it happen.

You should set an objective and give the PCs exp for meeting that objective. If the objective is to save the hostage, then they get no exp for the encounter, even if they killed a dragon that happened to pass by. If they save the hostage, by any means (diplomacy etc) they should get full exp for defeating the challenge, even if they killed no one.

If the objective is to kill him, then they get exp if they kill him. But if you don't want him dead in order to make him a recurring villain, why to put an exp bounty on his head