Rule of Three for 7/25

[nogray]

Found it here.

I like that R&D is looking into rituals, as they are one of my favorite parts of the game. Sorry to say they can't pin down a solution that they like, though. The other questions were "meh" to me.

Discuss, if you'd like.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Didn't Klaus say he worked on ritual options for one of the books that was canceled? Seems like they really have thought about this stuff a lot. It sure would be interesting to see the devs actually discuss what they've looked at and what they did and didn't like about those solutions. I say that especially since it seems to me there ARE some things that can be done to make rituals more interesting and appealing and some of them seem like quite solid options.

 

[Zaran]

I somehow think they do not have alot of the PHB left in stock but they made a decision to promote Essentials and would not WANT to redistribute a portion of the game that is not the focus.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Maybe. I'd guess they're still considering what a new PHB would look like. Would a slightly updated PHB really sell well? What classes would go in it? They certainly don't want to reprint the existing one without updating it, yet doing that is a fairly significant investment, creates yet another item needing to be stocked, and might not really garner enough sales to make it a profitable book.

Beyond that what would happen with the other books? If you print a new book that replaces the existing PHB then you've also probably largely obsoleted the rest of the core books to some extent. Not only are existing stocks of PHB1 the issue, but PHB2, PHB3, all the Power books, etc.

OTOH they can continue with the newer lines of books, MVs, the newer themed types of supplements, potentially other types of books that we haven't even heard about. The older books can just slowly fade into history and game elements they didn't like that well can gather the dust of history. I'm guessing few, if any, 4e books will see a lot of reprinting. Instead their content will just linger on on DDI and new stuff will take its place.

 

[Klaus]

Didn't Klaus say he worked on ritual options for one of the books that was canceled? Seems like they really have thought about this stuff a lot. It sure would be interesting to see the devs actually discuss what they've looked at and what they did and didn't like about those solutions. I say that especially since it seems to me there ARE some things that can be done to make rituals more interesting and appealing and some of them seem like quite solid options.

No, not rituals, specifically.

 

[Riastlin]

I somehow think they do not have alot of the PHB left in stock but they made a decision to promote Essentials and would not WANT to redistribute a portion of the game that is not the focus.

Honestly, I don't think this has anything to do with Essentials. I don't own any of the Heroes of books but I can tell there's simply no way I'd drop another $35 for a "revised" PHB. Particularly considering that the rules are still being updated and probably always will be as needed. I rather doubt I'm alone in this regard. Sales of the Revised books would be much lower than the original sales which ironically means they would have to be priced higher in all likelihood in order to be profitable, which means even fewer sales, etc. Its really just a matter of market forces in my opinion.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, I on e thought I might buy a revised PHB, but with the essentializing of the base classes and the unneeded errata I saw in the class compendium articles, I am not interested.

I know WOTC is against powering up classes, but that is needed just as much as nerfing things. The PHB was the first book, and it was good, but later classes are more elegant and work differently. With the CC articles, wizards should have gone back and updated some weak spots, instead of just nerfing the stronger spots.

 

[BobTheNob]

I just want to see whether they can detach rituals from money cost. It works "fluff wise" to attach rituals to money, but I find in practice it doesnt, and I think the comment that was made reflects our group experience.

Its too much at heroic (meaning it almost never gets used), and super-trivial at epic (meaning you have to design around constant counter-ritualing).

To me, making rituals work is about finding a cost that isnt money.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I just want to see whether they can detach rituals from money cost. It works "fluff wise" to attach rituals to money, but I find in practice it doesnt, and I think the comment that was made reflects our group experience.

Its too much at heroic (meaning it almost never gets used), and super-trivial at epic (meaning you have to design around constant counter-ritualing).

To me, making rituals work is about finding a cost that isnt money.

The thing is (XP aside) there's nothing else that a character has that it can pay that it doesn't just get back in 5 minutes or a day. AP, HS, HP, whatever become totally situational costs and the players can meta-game the heck out of that. So basically we're left with GP and XP, take your pick...

 

[mudlock]

The thing is (XP aside) there's nothing else that a character has that it can pay that it doesn't just get back in 5 minutes or a day. AP, HS, HP, whatever become totally situational costs and the players can meta-game the heck out of that. So basically we're left with GP and XP, take your pick...

What's wrong with using non-permanent resources? Lower the gp-cost, sure, but add a cost in HS (or AP or, how about this for an idea, daily arcane powers? Or a durable-esque feat that gives you 3 HS that can only be used to fuel HS-fueled rituals?) That achieves the dual goals of making them relevant early without making them spamable later on.

And hey, has everyone forgotten Knock? Cost a HS. Great template for the idea. (Let's not talk about martial practices; too far the other way, and just not that useful.)