Rewarding Roleplaying

[Barastrondo]

Very much enjoy non-combat rewards, and more to the point, enjoy being in games where everyone involved values them. I'm not convinced, though, that there are good systems for them. The most obvious thing I do is strike out the idea of magic-for-purchase and use either inherent bonuses or an explicit "Don't worry, you will get the items you need, if not necessarily the specific ones you have in mind" social contract. I thoroughly dislike gold as a way to purchase some of the most vital bonuses in the game: that puts social purchases like lands, ships, taverns, businesses, investing in charities and the like in direct competition with getting the pluses you need to hit monsters as you rise up in level.

If gold's siloed out as a resource, then players begin to get creative in the ways that they spend it -- and they also become more creative in viewing potential rewards. A deed to land that's worth about 1000 gp? If you use gold to buy magic items or the like, then 9 times out of 10 that will get sold. But if gold buys more non-combat rewards, then maybe the land itself will be tempting.

And non-combat rewards drive the game, specifically in sandboxy ways. I agree that they're not going to be as useful if, say, you're on an Adventure Path and come hell or high water, you'll be going through DF3 once you're done with DF2. But in a "write your own adventures" milieu, non-combat rewards drive the adventures the players choose to go on. The newly anointed champion of the forge-god wants to build an impressive temple: the player starts asking about magic anvils and where one might be found. The dragonborn wizard is granted permission to open an embassy for his people: it's time to select some land and start currying favors.

It's trickier to run a game like that, to be certain -- there's no guarantee that players will want to go into a dungeon and kill a dragon because it's there, and they may actively resent adventures that feel more generic. Any group of PCs can go overthrow a Dark Lord or ransack a tomb; the generic quest can be seen as taking time away from the personalized goals. But I personally find it a lot more rewarding. Last week a player in one of my games said it was one of the best D&D campaigns he'd ever been in -- and this is the same guy who's delighting in the fact that his character's motivation is "find a good husband for my daughter, and make sure they're financially secure." For us at least, I'm pretty sure those two things are connected.

 

[Rechan]

Like I said to S'mon, its still potentially valuable story material. But story material is ultimately...fluff...in the game. It doesn't matter in play. I could give my paladin a squire, or my paladin might have a squire from Day 1, or my paladin might not care about a squire, and either way, it all works the same. It doesn't cause any different play when it comes down to it -- there's nothing about what my paladin does that the squire comes into play for.

But you're forgetting something, KM.

The thread's whole point is about rewarding roleplaying. The reward is for fluff. It's for RP. Roleplay has jack all to do with attacking and HP and AC. Therefore, someone who roleplays well would be more likely to enjoy being rewarded with something that facilitates more roleplay, as opposed to more stabbing.

If someone cares enough to play a character with effort than they care about that character, and more than that character's numbers for killing things.

 

[Rechan]

From where I'm sitting, it seems pretty obvious to say "character decisions affect play." Characters choose left or right at the junction, choose Power A or Power B to use, choose to rest or not, choose to stay or run, choose to goof around in a tavern, or go fight the orc hoard on the borders...stuff like that. But all that stuff, when it affects play, comes to bear on the combat system, ultimately. How hard or easy is this, the next, or the last combat going to be? Do we fight the orcs far away, or do we fight them in the town? Do we fight them when we are well-prepared, or do we fight them when they've got the edge?

Really? You can't think of player choices that matter beyond the whin and how of a fight?

Here's an example of a choice I gave my players.

The setup: There was a curse that was killing unhatched Dragonborn, and one of the PCs (a DB paladin) had a quest to take a wagon full of eggs to one of the few places where they would safely hatch. But when they arrive, it is discovered a dragon just attacked and raided the eggs that had already been stored there. The PCs and survivors didn't know if the eggs would be tainted by the curse or not. This dragon was laired in the area but they needed to find the dragon and fast because the region is all harsh, ice-covered mountains.

The PCs were not motivated to fight the dragon because of its hoard or anything else, they just wanted to rescue the eggs to save the dwindling Dragonborn race.

The choices:

1) There was a rumor that someone had stolen from this dragon in the past. A thief who lived in a fortified town two days travel was said to have made his fortune robbing the dragon. Downside: they're on a time crunch. The eggs could hatch any day, or they could lose their immunity to the curse. Traveling two days on a RUMOR was risky; this guy very well may not be legit.

2) There was a mythical beast buried in the region. When it is slain, it could answer one question truthfully and in the spirit of the question (i.e. if you asked where the ancient sword of DalRah is, it would not tell you "in its scabbard", but the specific location of the sword). Downside: several PCs have quests that deal with mysteries. So they could get a clue, or a good answer towards their overall goals. The dragon thing is an immediate, but small issue in the scope of the campaign, versus answering something more important.

3) There is a hag they met earlier. The hag made the offer to swap information about anything in exchange for favors. Downside: it will cost them something (and this cost is in Fluff/RP terms, not gold or equipment). They're sure she's reliable, but they don't know what she'll ask for and whatever it was, it would be unpleasant.

The Outcome: The players chose option #3. The hag asked for several things (Your full name spoken into a jar. Your first born child. A smile. A kiss.) She did not elaborate as to what the consequences of these acts would be. For the dragon's location, the Dragonborn paladin traded a smile - and he lost the ability to feel or express any positive emotion. Another player asked for pertinent information (the specific details how to get that one answer from the mythical beast; it was a process); he traded a kiss - and lost the ability to love.

Yes, it all dealt with an end result of fighting the dragon, but how they got to the dragon was the choice. That choice had downsides which were non-fight consequences. #2 was direct and dealt with combat, but it was a 'one use' sort of deal, a very limited wish that they did not want to waste on such a short-term goal. In the end they chose to make a fluff/roleplay sacrifice for fluff/roleplay information.

 

[Matt James]

But all that stuff, when it affects play, comes to bear on the combat system, ultimately. How hard or easy is this, the next, or the last combat going to be?

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. Thanks for that clarification. I'll see what I can draft up when time permits.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The thread's whole point is about rewarding roleplaying. The reward is for fluff. It's for RP

The OP's question seemed to me to be more about giving out rewards that were RP-based, rather than rewards that were mechanically based...e.g.: an alternate form of treasure. Squires instead of +1 swords. These could be given out regardless of if RPing is done in the session or not.

As for rewards for RP, I, as a Lazy DM, generally don't do anything special for that. I don't do XP, levels are gained at narrative points, I use inherent bonuses, and I award treasure more when it "makes sense." I also use 2e treasure, modified for 4e, so it's not always the most useful, reliable, or build-appropriate reward (though sometimes it is!). People who are into RP do that because they enjoy it, and people who are not so good don't do as much, and they don't get "penalized" by not having the same rewards as those folks who are big RPers. I feel it would be a little unfair of me to ignore Ben's character because Ben isn't in-character, but reward Mozz's character, since Mozz, as a theater dude, gets really in character.

Still, as a DM, I work new materials into the game. If Mozz gives me more stuff to hang a hook onto, I'll hang more hooks there. I'll still try to drill a hook into Ben every once in a while, but since these aren't "rewards," it doesn't change the balance of power or attention dramatically. They are rewarded as a party, not as individual players. They're in competition with my monsters, not with each other.

Which brings me back to how it's still potentially valuable for the right player, in the right circumstance, but, without a more intensive system, stays relative and minor.

If someone cares enough to play a character with effort than they care about that character, and more than that character's numbers for killing things.

Yup, and some meaningless fluff can be pretty valuable for that character. But ultimately, that character's gonna be using numbers to kill things, and so story rewards aren't a replacement.

The Outcome: The players chose option #3.

See, in my games, since I am a Lazy DM, they'd probably just do an Exploration Challenge, making Streetwise or Nature or Perception checks, until they either do it, or they fail. And if they fail, they don't get to rescue the MacGuffins, and they've gotta deal with that noise. Dragon wins, time to move on with your lives.

Because I'm not going to invent three scenarios that they're not going to see. That sounds suspiciously like lots of effort for potentially no reward...Three scenarios devised, and they only get to pick one? Triple work! Not my D&D scene. Ain't got time for that.

Yes, it all dealt with an end result of fighting the dragon, but how they got to the dragon was the choice. That choice had downsides which were non-fight consequences.

So your DB is grumpy now. If you have players who are into RP (and it seems you do), that's valuable, since they'll take that problem and run with it. If you have players who are not into RP, the reaction generally is, "So? I kill this dragon. Maybe later I kill that hag. All of my problems are solved with dice rolls."

Though this doesn't strike me so much as a reward for roleplaying as a punishment for it, since nothing good happened that they could RP joy about...in fact, the DB lost the ability to feel joy forever! That's not a thing I generally want to inflict on my PCs as a price for success, but rather something I would like to give them the ability to avoid (via die rolls) as a demonstration of their heroism.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Personally, I like the idea that RP can be its own reward, but I have mixed results with using that methodology, because I have a mixed group with respect to each member's ability and/or inclination to participate. So for some, I need to provide a carrot or sorts.

We use a system of nomination for an Action Point. Someone does something in character that for them as a player stands out? Feel free to nominate them. All it needs is another member of the group to 'second' it, and they get an AP. Simple and effective, as it's a nice tangible, mechanically useful reward, but immaterial, so the others don't feel "ripped off."

That said, I'm in 100% agreement with @Barastrondo (I would have XP'd him if I could - someone cover him for me?) in this post, and use a very similar social contract in my games. We don't use the ridiculous default economy, nor are there magic item shops (which isn't to say that you can't buy or sell magic items in game). It really helps put player focus on their own stories and goals, rather than on lusting after new toys to kill baddies with (unless of course, that IS their goal).

 

[Drammattex]

For us it's like this:

Role-playing your character is the way you affect the story.

The story responds to your actions, subtle and unsubtle, by cause and effect.

The more you engage the story, the more the story becomes about you, and the more it becomes your own. For us, the reward is in creating a dramatic narrative that is more interesting and intimate than what we could get from a novel, tv show, or movie because it's absolutely personal to us. It's about capturing those moments where a character says something incredible or makes a choice so true to form that everyone is in awe of the player (even if it's a really bad or destructive choice). For us, that is what the game is about.

Since I don't usually get that outside my own group, I'm happy that the mechanics provide a different way to have fun (i.e. kill stuff, gain levels, use tactical tabletop strategy). In 1e and 2e I couldn't do hack & slash. In 4e I'll at least play the whole session because the mechanics are interesting.

Just my two cents.

 

[Matt James]

I do something very similar. I provide a network of choices. How they get from Point A to Point B is up to them. I'll draft up an article shortly on this.

 

[Drammattex]

Thinking a bit on this topic...

Here's good experiment for those who would like to invest their games with role-playing awesomeness without resorting to various mechanics and reward systems:

Make a game night to try a few RPGs where the "system" allows almost nothing but role-play. Based on my admittedly limited experience, I'd recommend a night of Dread, a night of Fiasco, and a night of Kagematsu. (I have to push Kagematsu. Tried it Monday night and had one of the most memorable RPG sessions of my life).

Each of these games is a one-session event with rules that focus on characters and scenes more than anything else. While you're playing those games--which include no real power gain or reward--think about playing D&D this very way. Translate that kind of play directly into D&D so that scenes and story take the forefront and the skills, powers, stuff, and advancement run a little more quietly in the background.

These indie RPGs that have been cropping up lately are really awesome for a grounded role-playing experience.

 

[Umbran]

Matt, the question as you ask it in the OP is not Edition-specific, or even game-specific. If you want this moved into General to get a wider audience, just let one of the mods know, and we can slide it over for you.

I'm currently running Deadlands, rather than any D&D flavor, and the game gives me an explicit way to reward just about anything I want: Fate Chips. These are the game's mechanic allowing alteration of dice rolls, powering up certain abilities, soaking damage, and XP if not spent on those other things.

In general, whatever game I'm running, I like to reward roleplaying, creative thinking, and virtually anything else that makes the session more fun (like a well-timed joke that adds to the game experience, rather than detracting from it, and so on). When the game has some form of Action Point mechanic, I'll often use that. Otherwise, I tend to break out some of the XP (or equivalent) that I'd give for the session and reserve it for such awards.