Treasure Dungeons

[Halivar]

So, I've got a confluence of a couple things in the games I run:

1) I hate treasure parcels (and not just the 4E convention; I did it this way in 3.x also). I hate the "and now here is your loot" presentation at the end of the encounter, as if it were merely an afterthought (because it was). I hate how anti-climactic acquiring loot is. And why does the BBEG have a +2 holy sword laying around? It makes no sense.

2) My players love Dragonquest. It's a board-game all about delving dungeons and acquiring gold and treasure under extreme duress (with high mortality rates).

3) My players love dungeons.

So, I've got a crazy idea. Plot-oriented BBEG's now only carry magic items that make sense for them, which for the evil wizard will never be the +3 half-moon axe the barbarian really wants. Instead, every session players will have the option of pursuing treasure dungeons for loot.

Here's how I would explain them in-game:

A thousand years ago, during the reign of Darzul, lichlord of Doomgarde, the weapons and magic items of fallen heroes around the world were collected and hidden away, so that their power might never be brought to bear on him again. Darzul created dungeons in hidden, black warrens of The Steward, and populated these dungeons with traps and monsters. These treasures have lain hidden in their secret lairs ever since.

Every once in a hundred to a thousand years, the evil warrens reveal themselves, and adventurers may explore these dungeons. Once the players leave, the warrens close behind them, never to be seen again.

The players will have an item that reveals evil warrens of the Steward that contain treasure dungeons. In other words, the inclusion of these dungeons into the game will be entirely player-initiated. The plot will never force them into one. They will have the option each session of searching one out, if they so desire.

Each dungeon will have multiple levels, and if the players choose to explore them, it may take multiple sessions to search the whole thing (should they choose such a thing).

The first level is the "catch-up" level. Items are at their level or below, and are accessible with moderate effort. If a player feels like their magic items are anemic, maybe it's time to clean out the first floor of a treasure dungeon. From there, the levels get increasingly harder and more deadly, but the level of magic items acquired goes up.

The bottom level is where the Foozle is. The Foozle is the item the dungeon was built to contain. The players will know only that the Foozle is an item of such power that, should they acquire it, the campaign may become unbalanced in their favor. However, they will also know that the bottom floor of every treasure dungeon is designed not to challenge them, but to kill them. With great risk comes great reward.

In a treasure dungeon, you get experience for acquiring magic items. Acquiring the Foozle is a major feat, and grants commensurate experience. Thus, if the players find creative ways to avoid traps, obstacles, and monsters, they are justified in receiving full experience for the treasure dungeon.

If, at any point, the players choose to leave the treasure dungeon, it closes behind them, and the evil warren seals and never opens to them again.

Comments or suggestions? Also, are there any old 1E modules that have ready made dungeons you would suggest for swiping for this purpose?

 

[Jack7]

1) I hate treasure parcels (and not just the 4E convention; I did it this way in 3.x also). I hate the "and now here is your loot" presentation at the end of the encounter, as if it were merely an afterthought (because it was). I hate how anti-climactic acquiring loot is. And why does the BBEG have a +2 holy sword laying around? It makes no sense.

I am absolutely with ya there. I don't do treasure the typical way either, though I don't do it your way. But it sounds like you've a pretty good solution for your setting.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Sounds like D&D returning to its roots. If the players enjoy a good dungeons crawl, this may well be a good solution. Though if the really like dungeon crawls, your campaign may turn into nothing but looting dungeons. Would that be okay with you?

 

[Halivar]

Though if the really like dungeon crawls, your campaign may turn into nothing but looting dungeons. Would that be okay with you?

I think my biggest challenge, and the place where I have needed to (and hopefully have) grow the most as a DM is letting the players have exactly what they want.

One criticism I get is that I tend to have over-the-top, overreaching plots, and a unhealthy sprinkling of railroading. I thought of this as a way to give players greater control over the sort of game they have.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This is how I always thought of White Plume Mountain. ("Shyeah, right; we're giving Blackrazor back!")

 

[Stormonu]

In my case, I could go with this (and I'm sure it would be adaptable to other campaigns by changing who the war was against).

Nearly a thousand years ago, the dragons of Amberos banded together to lay waste to the infestation of humanoid races - from humans to goblinoids to elves and dwarves. From their blood and by magic, these dragons created troops to augment their numbers and bring war against the humanoid races.

The humanoid races slowly organized and fought back against this menace. Weapons of magical power were needed to battle the dragon-magic infused forces of the enemy, and to safeguard these forges and weapon caches, underground citadels were hastily fashioned in secret across the continent.

Though ages have passed and secret passwords to these caches have been long lost, some of these half-forgotten, trapped and maze-like caches still exist, many still unplundered thanks to ancient wards or guardians still active and defending their cache. Those brave, wise or lucky enough to penetrate the old dungeon's traps and guardians can seek out these ancient stores to equip themselves against the enemies of the new world.

Best of all, if you want to reward a party with the password to one of these caches for completing a separate adventure, since they were build by a variety of races and nations access to one cache doesn't necessarily mean access to them all.

 

[Pentius]

Well, you say your players love dungeon-diving, so they might well enjoy this. Definitely ask them and feel it out first. Their reaction might be a lot different than mine.


To me though, this sounds like a problem where the solution I would use is to simply make sure before placing treasure that it made sense for it to be there, and possibly to tie it into the setting to get the players more excited. Your solution sounds to me like replacing poorly explained treasure with a series of derailing mini-games once per level, which would only be replacing one immersion breaking thing with another, more immersion breaking thing for me.

 

[S'mon]

Why not have powerful NPCs reward the PCs with gifts of magic items? It worked for Tolkien!

 

[SiderisAnon]

I rather like this idea.

To me, the existence most dungeons really make no sense. Some are designed such that they don't totally destroy suspension of disbelief, but the presence of many of them is absolutely ludicrous. The two creation sources listed above give a decent explanation for why so many dungeons chock full of treasure exist, as well as offering some explanation as to why there are all these magic items just lying around.

I've been working on a more demon-oriented explanation for my next campaign, though I may just steal from the above instead.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Check out Monte Cook's Banewarrens. It's like that in many ways, except the magic items can be a bit twisted. It's a bit like White Plume Mountain on crack.

The bottom level is where the Foozle is. The Foozle is the item the dungeon was built to contain. The players will know only that the Foozle is an item of such power that, should they acquire it, the campaign may become unbalanced in their favor. However, they will also know that the bottom floor of every treasure dungeon is designed not to challenge them, but to kill them. With great risk comes great reward.

The MacGuffin is the item the dungeon was built to contain. The Foozle is the boss monster guarding it!