D&D 4E Poll for 4e DMs: Alignment System

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What was your issue with Detect Evil?

Some settings, like Eberron, "fixed" this by having 1/3rd of humans evil, like the bartender who waters drinks and "ups" your bar tab.

So while you detect the villain, you're also detecting the butler, the jerk cop, said bartender, etc. However, this doesn't work in a lot of settings.

 

[Pentius]

As I recall, it didn't really work in Eberron, either.

 

[drothgery]

Some settings, like Eberron, "fixed" this by having 1/3rd of humans evil, like the bartender who waters drinks and "ups" your bar tab.

Huh? Cite? Dragons aren't color-coded by alignment (and other intelligent monsters are likewise much less predictable in alignment) and there are many evil people in positions of power in 3.5e Eberron (even in Good organizations), but there's nothing that says 1/3 of the human population of Khorvaire is Evil anywhere as far as I know.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I used the default 4E system in my game, but I'm not a big stickler for alignments, anyhow, in any edition. The only place I would enforce the rules would be if somebody played a paladin and it was necessary.

I don't love the 4E alignments - I consider going back to the old version every once in a while, but I'm too lazy to make the change and it does not have a huge impact on my game.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Huh? Cite? Dragons aren't color-coded by alignment (and other intelligent monsters are likewise much less predictable in alignment) and there are many evil people in positions of power in 3.5e Eberron (even in Good organizations), but there's nothing that says 1/3 of the human population of Khorvaire is Evil anywhere as far as I know.

It was based on something Hellcow said. He talked alignment sometimes.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm generally not a fan of divinations, particularly ones that hang big neon signs above my villains. Old skool Detect Evil wasn't as bad in this regard, but I still don't miss it.

You know, even in 3.5Ed, the spell DID require V/S/DF components, was directional, and took a few rounds to actually pinpoint an evil person...assuming such info could be gained in that environment...and assuming the caster didn't get stunned.

On top of that, societal rules may even prevent you from casting it. Many cultures limited the number and identities of persons who could carry weapons in the court of a lord. How likely is it that, in a fantasy realm, unsanctioned spellcasting would be permitted. And if the evil guy you're looking for is the machiavellian court advisor or the King's consort, odds are good that they would tell you to cease your casting. The advisor might say that such a divination has already been done; the consort might just order the crossbowmen to "shoot the assassin."

 

[Lanefan]

Out of curiosity, do you like playing paladins, clerics and monks? (As a player.)

Paladins? Haven't had the opportunity for ages - the DM of the game I play in banned them back around 1985. I tried one in a 3e game I was in but it died the death in its first battle. I'm generally too chaotic of a player to do justice to a Paladin over the long run but every now and then the mood strikes to try one for a while...if I could. That, and the current party in that game would run a Pally out in no time - alignment-wise it might be the most Evil party I've ever seen.

Monks? This is the only class I've never played, mostly because I just can't get into the whole martial arts thing. The alignment restrictions don't bother me. One of these days I'll have to run one out if only to say I've played every class in the game...but it won't be this day.

Clerics? Love 'em! Played dozens. Bringing a new one in tonight, in fact; if that's the party we end up playing - the main party is splitting in two and I have a character for the other side. (still trying to dream up a personality for the new cleric that won't bore the hell out of everyone - the CG deity's main points are strength and silence, so by default it'll be the strong silent type unless something else leaps out - maybe I'll base it on some Clint Eastwood character...)

Lan-"feel lucky, punk?"-efan

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

You know, even in 3.5Ed, the spell DID require V/S/DF components, was directional, and took a few rounds to actually pinpoint an evil person...assuming such info could be gained in that environment...and assuming the caster didn't get stunned.

On top of that, societal rules may even prevent you from casting it. Many cultures limited the number and identities of persons who could carry weapons in the court of a lord. How likely is it that, in a fantasy realm, unsanctioned spellcasting would be permitted. And if the evil guy you're looking for is the machiavellian court advisor or the King's consort, odds are good that they would tell you to cease your casting. The advisor might say that such a divination has already been done; the consort might just order the crossbowmen to "shoot the assassin."

Yeah, there are hoops to jump, and I can make detection harder. But there are ways around those hoops, and players are good at finding them. At the end of the day, I'm happier to just not have to think about it.

Paladins? Haven't had the opportunity for ages - the DM of the game I play in banned them back around 1985. I tried one in a 3e game I was in but it died the death in its first battle. I'm generally too chaotic of a player to do justice to a Paladin over the long run but every now and then the mood strikes to try one for a while...if I could. That, and the current party in that game would run a Pally out in no time - alignment-wise it might be the most Evil party I've ever seen.

Monks? This is the only class I've never played, mostly because I just can't get into the whole martial arts thing. The alignment restrictions don't bother me. One of these days I'll have to run one out if only to say I've played every class in the game...but it won't be this day.

Clerics? Love 'em! Played dozens. Bringing a new one in tonight, in fact; if that's the party we end up playing - the main party is splitting in two and I have a character for the other side. (still trying to dream up a personality for the new cleric that won't bore the hell out of everyone - the CG deity's main points are strength and silence, so by default it'll be the strong silent type unless something else leaps out - maybe I'll base it on some Clint Eastwood character...)

Lan-"feel lucky, punk?"-efan

So you like playing clerics, can't get into monks, and have logistical problems with playing a paladin. And you believe in restricting alignments for such characters; that's interesting.

I asked you this because you reminded me of one of the guys in my group, who only just discovered that nothing prevents a 4e divine PC from violating their restrictions. (By RAW.) He then said that paladins in his campaign would 'fall' into fighterhood if they violated their restrictions. Which shocked me because he's previously told us that he won't play divine characters, and especially not paladins. He's the oldest member of our group, so I'm guessing he's seen a paladin or two fall.

I guess I'm just thinking "If restrictions make a class so unappealing to you, why enforce them?" Seems counterproductive, or, er counterfun to me.

--Tequila "KIS" Sunrise

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Speaking only for myself, I loved playing Clerics, Monks & Paladins in previous editions, and am simply not as impressed by their 4Ed incarnations. FWIW, in the past 4 3.X campaigns, I played 2 Monks and a Cleric. The alignment restrictions of those classes was, for me, part of the draw.

For 4Ed, I have one PC in the works who WILL be a Hybrid Paladin/Sorcerer; have not been inspired by the Cleric, and absolutely will not be playing a Monk (for a variety of reasons) at any point I can envision.

 

[Pentius]

For me, I like Clerics, any edition, well enough. Not my number one favorite, but up there. In older editions, they still have mechanics for getting their powers revoked, but it always seemed more lenient than a paladin's. In 4e, there are just too many other classes I want to play first.

I only really like Monks in 4e. In every other edition I've seen one in, it seems like all their class features are focused around getting over the inherent systemic disadvantage of not using weapons or armor, with only a couple left for cool tricks like not taking falling damage. 4e gets right to the Wuxia.

I only play paladins in 4e. I like the concept, but I'm just not willing to play with the fall mechanics.