D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Rapid Shot and two-weapon fighting

[Dandu]

2) I don't want to power the build with Sneak Attack or Skirmish or anything (the player can decide if he wants them or whatever) and whatever items he wants to spend his money on is up to him and the other players

What are the attack modifiers and damage output we're looking at if you combine this with Sneak Attack?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I understand everything there, what about a Returning weapon (it says it returns to your hand after being thrown) could it not include being "thrown" by the string of the crossbow and returning to the...shute (whatever you call where the bolt sits in a crossbow)

EDIT: never mind I just read the Returning effect and it specifically says "must be a throwing weapon" and "returns to the hand of the thrower before his next turn" so it couldn't work

Closest to what you're looking to achieve, iirc, is the Raptor Arrow from MIC.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Closest to what you're looking to achieve, iirc, is the Raptor Arrow from MIC.

Yea that would be what he is looking for, but he doesn't have any of the requirements (Ehlonna, True Believer, spell slot) nor does it help with multiple shots in a round (although there are items from MIC (which I don't have, if the munchkin would buy me the book then I may let him have those items )

 

[Wyvernhand]

It would work, but not like I think you think it would work. Rapid Shot simply adds 1 extra attack. Period. It doesn't matter how many weapons you are wielding or what other attacks you are making in a round, Rapid Shot ONLY adds one extra attack. Kinda like Haste. Or Whirling Frenzy. Or Flurry (well, until Greater Flurry).

So, if you got 4 attacks with your main hand, and 4 attacks with your offhand, you would have 9 attacks with Rapid Shot. If you also had Haste, you would have 10 attacks, and if you added in Whirling Frenzy, you'd have 11.

I built a build a while back that used Master Thrower, TWFing, Rapid Shot, and Dancing Mongoose to get like, 22 dagger toss attacks in a round, each with +9d6 fire damage from Dragonfire Inspiration. It was silly, but completely rules legal.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yea that would be what he is looking for, but he doesn't have any of the requirements (Ehlonna, True Believer, spell slot) nor does it help with multiple shots in a round (although there are items from MIC (which I don't have, if the munchkin would buy me the book then I may let him have those items )

You don't need to worship Ehlonna or have the feat or spell slot for the returning property (but you do want those, cause Bane on whatever you're shooting is SEXY), you just need to have NG, LG, CG, or TN alignment. But they return the next round onto your bow, so by RAW even if you could find/afford 10 of them (over 60,000 gp for 10!), or however many attacks you get, you could only get one on each crossbow reloaded in that fashion.

Look at the Archery handbook on brilliant gameologists. In the crossbow section it notes a ghostly reloading property, or something like that. Creates a pocket space for up to 100 bolts that autoload for you. It's a +1 enhancement on each crossbow, and I can't help but shake my head and ask why not use a heavy crossbow at that point. But it is an (expensive) option. I still like the gloves of the master strategist option the best.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

...Actually, there IS another solution...

Girallon's Blessing, 3rd level spell in Spell Compendium. Gives you two extra arms for 10 min/CL. So now you do have a free hand. Two, actually.

 

[Andras]

Quick Loading from MIC effectively grants Rapid Reload and holds 100 ammo in an extra dimensional space.

 

[cjosephs1s]

For some reason I'm thinking there is a magic quiver that automatically produces arrows for its user whenever they reach for one. Maybe this is from a prestige class? If anyone knows what I'm talking about please point it out.

But an alternative if you can pull off all the feats and the only setback is the reloading then sit down with your DM and see if you two can come up with crossbows that "magically produce ammunition" just like this quiver. Granted its going to cost a bundle just to make them and then the ammunition is going to be standard, but who's to say with some more gold you can't enchant the magic bolts to do certain things. Magic is only limited by your imagination and the magic in the world. Granted it costs money to make stuff, but we don't go looting all those dead bodies to invest it in real estate! And if a quiver can produce an arrow with an activation of being pulled from it why not a crossbow whever the string is pulled back?

Talk to your DM and see what he says. Even if you find everything you need, get all the feats and figure out a way to magically/physically do it he still may say no for various reasons. After all what your wanting to do in real world terms is shoot two rifles at the same time one in each hand while aiming them and not hitting your comrades in combat 10x in 6 seconds.

Just my two cents worth but I love the munchkin idea!!!

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The issue isn't time to reload the crossbows, it's needing a free hand to do so.

And that quiver you're talking about was in some sort of wizards.com web article. It was grossly overpriced, something like 25000 gp, and all it did was provide infinite ammunition, it wouldn't have loaded itself onto the bow/crossbow. I wish it wasn't so pricy, my favorite archer character ever had a magical quiver that shot up an arrow into his waiting fingertips any time he reached his hand back for one, and it'd be nice to replicate that without crippling the character's other magic gear so much.

 

[cjosephs1s]

The issue isn't time to reload the crossbows, it's needing a free hand to do so.

And that quiver you're talking about was in some sort of wizards.com web article. It was grossly overpriced, something like 25000 gp, and all it did was provide infinite ammunition, it wouldn't have loaded itself onto the bow/crossbow. I wish it wasn't so pricy, my favorite archer character ever had a magical quiver that shot up an arrow into his waiting fingertips any time he reached his hand back for one, and it'd be nice to replicate that without crippling the character's other magic gear so much.

I think maybe I wasn't clear on my last post. I was using the quiver to demonstrate a certain magical effect. Since this magic effect is to create an arrow upon a certain activity being performed, in the case of the quiver an "arrow being pulled from it", what the quiver is effectively doing is conjuring an object upon the completion of a spell trigger. For the case of the crossbow it would conjure an arrow anytime the string is pulled back to the locking point.

And I did find what I originally was looking for which was a bow that produced arrows just from pulling the string. Hopefully the link works.

Ask Wizards: 12/27/2006

Its a bit more than just getting teh arrows to nock for you but you can strip off some of the other magical enchantments to come up with an estimated price for getting the "arrows" to magically appear upon the string being pulled back. I see no reason why it wouldn't work on a crossbow.

Now for another idea on how to pull the string back. Its not perfect but its an idea. There are such things as Repeating Crossbows that basically use a lever to pull the string back. Since this lever works with gears and such and a little physics why not use Mage Hand to operate it. Simply enchant your xbows with a continual mage hand spell that pulls the lever. Granted the repeating could be overkill if you combine this with the force effect from the above link but its the working mechanisms that are important. And you can always enchant your "magazine" to produce magic arrows. Then just simply trade out magazines for the kind of arrows you want.

Hope this was more useful than the last post.