Legand & Lore: Magic Items

[keterys]

Have it work like the Assassin ability: if the target has X hit points remaining, it is decapitated. Set X so that a standard monster would be vulnerable even at full hit points, but an elite or solo would need some wearing down first.

Or really make it like the Executioner ability. Lower threshold, no need to roll a 20 or whatever. Just have it a property or at-will where it decaps at a certain threshold. Say 5 * enhancement.

Happens plenty, so feels vorpal, is very mathematically sound / strong, but not so swingy that it ruins interesting fights.

 

[Marshall]

And yet, the Flaming+ example can't be a 6th level uncommon, because of the enhancement system.

And, in fact, almost every 6th level big 3 is a waste of space. And magic items trickle sadly in at the N+2 (ex: 7th) range, start to look decent at N+3, and N+5 is overly full.

Enhancement definitely constrains big 3 item design. Honest.

No, but its not because of the enhancement its because WotC chose to make Flaming, which has the exact same major benefit as Frost, a 5th level enhancement vs. a 3rd level. The constraint is not the enhancement bonus, its the glaring, obvious errors in leveling other types of enhancements.

Even then, nothing is stopping the system from having +6 level enhancements. The problem is that they have to be extremely powerful to compete with another +1 to-hit and damage.

 

[keterys]

No, but its not because of the enhancement its because WotC chose to make Flaming, which has the exact same major benefit as Frost, a 5th level enhancement vs. a 3rd level. The constraint is not the enhancement bonus, its the glaring, obvious errors in leveling other types of enhancements.

Sorry, I picked Flaming out of a hat - feel free to substitute Radiant or Berserking or whatever enchant you happen to actually like at N+5.

The problem is that they have to be extremely powerful to compete with another +1 to-hit and damage.

Exactly.

 

[aurance]

We've not used +X items for most of 3e and 4e.

The game broke horribly and we're now living in horrible sewers.



Just kidding, the sewers are pretty okay.

 

[Marshall]

Sorry, I picked Flaming out of a hat - feel free to substitute Radiant or Berserking or whatever enchant you happen to actually like at N+5.

Exactly.

Still doesnt matter. If you want to make a "better than +5" enhancement you just have to compensate for competing with +1.

The point is that a start at 15th level +5 doesnt have to be the same power level as a 5 or 10th level +5 thats bumped up to +3. Or put another way, that an enhancement that is +5 at 5th level isnt necessarily still +5 or should even be 10th, 15th, 20th etc...

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

If we are re-imagining the magic item creation to avoid using pure + weapons, why not delink the other enhancements from the weapon and link them to the character wielding it?

The idea that the higher level the character, the more they can exert their will on the magics within the item? Then you can use the rarity categories for variation; minor, major, wondrous, artifact... or something like that.

That way you could have a base enhancement of Flaming or Frost as a minor enhancement that adds 1D6 per 5 levels of the character using it.

A major enhancement might add in another keyword or a Fire Blast encounter power. Maybe a replacement at-will power?

Wondrous items would be the weird things, like Figurines of Pink Elephants, that are situation-based powers and/or provide replacement powers.

And Artifacts could break some rules.

This way the 'normal' adventuring gear would remain balanced and you don't have to go looting for the next higher leveled Frost Brand, but you can get some weird odd-ball things that bring the wonder back into the magic item game.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If we are re-imagining the magic item creation to avoid using pure + weapons, why not delink the other enhancements from the weapon and link them to the character wielding it?

This is remarkably similar to the idea I've had about fighters having "magic items" as class features.

Which brings up the other side of this. Weird spells or prayers or powers or rituals can be plunked down as "magic items" instead of as class powers, making their inclusion in a campaign optional: A DM who doesn't mind them can have them, and a DM who doesn't want them can ignore them.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

That way you could have a base enhancement of Flaming or Frost as a minor enhancement that adds 1D6 per 5 levels of the character using it.

Or for more clarity/flexibility in the items, use that as a base guideline, but express the items much like a cross between items and powers are now. So if fire is slightly weaker than other powers, you get maybe +1d6 at levels 4, 9, 14, etc. while with frost you get it at 5, 10, 15, etc. That also allows some variety in a particular type of item. One flaming sword might do nothing but give the bonus damage, while another flaming sword might give less bonus damage (+1d6 at 7, 13, 19, 25) and give another power.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

... Weird spells or prayers or powers or rituals can be plunked down as "magic items" instead of as class powers, making their inclusion in a campaign optional: A DM who doesn't mind them can have them, and a DM who doesn't want them can ignore them.

You mean like giving the Caster classes access to use a 'spell book' or 'prayer book' that has replacement powers built into it.. and your spells would be a selection of replacement power 'pages' that the DM could control what is available? There could be 'common' spells that are available to everyone {and in organized game play}
It also opens up room for mages to have signature spells and to design their own spells.

..and it opens up the option for a non-caster to learn how to use a specific 'page', via multiclassing or feats... I like that idea!

One issue it brings back is the 'mother may I' aspect of earlier edition mages where the player occasionally had to plead for spell acess.

 

[I'm A Banana]

You mean like giving the Caster classes access to use a 'spell book' or 'prayer book' that has replacement powers built into it.. and your spells would be a selection of replacement power 'pages' that the DM could control what is available? There could be 'common' spells that are available to everyone {and in organized game play}
It also opens up room for mages to have signature spells and to design their own spells.

..and it opens up the option for a non-caster to learn how to use a specific 'page', via multiclassing or feats... I like that idea!

One issue it brings back is the 'mother may I' aspect of earlier edition mages where the player occasionally had to plead for spell acess.

How about we split the difference? There are some things that training and skill get you automatically as you level up. Fighters can forge their own magic weapons and armor with a few properties. Wizards can weave their own spells with a few properties. It's a small list, but enough for some iconic basic abilities (magic missile and adamantine axes and mithral chain shirts, forex). These are "common" items or "minor" spells.

Then, there is a bigger list of "rare" items and "uncommon" spells that do all sorts of weirdness. Perhaps that's where we situate things like Vorpal Swords and the Finger of Death spell. These are not things that anyone just gets, they are things that the DM can award, for exceptional success, or for quest rewards. These things might be things you can use, or not; they might be powerful, or cursed. The might not work right at certain times, and you might loose them.

Likewise, clerics gain "simple" blessings through leveling up (cure wounds, healing potions, whatnot), and are awarded "divine" blessings as treasure (divination, planar travel, etc.). Thieves get items, too -- light weapons and light armor, but also cloaks, boots, goggles, etc.