The Template arguement.

[Naoki00_]

This has come up in my group recently, and I'm hoping to hear a few more opinions on the subject seeing as my group is rather small.

Long story short, is that I personally find role playing more integral then any combat, however, my character do tend to be very powerful IN combat, not because I made them this way, but because i made their back story, and found that without using certain methods in the game, the character really couldn't happen. I use templates quite often for this reason, as they are readily applicable to a character that it fits well on, without really much adjustment (we rarely use lv adjust for races), but because of this, my characters tend to be rather powerful, but not above anything the DM wouldn't allow.

Recently we have begun a 5th level campaign, and the Dm has said no templates, and only base races and classes, but he may make exceptions for a very well written story. I was ex tactic really as this is my territory, he didn't allow it because it had a template, but he's the DM, that's his call and not the issue.

What I want to know, is how those here feel about templates and their impact on the game, I feel that they are their to enhance a character beyond 'mundane' things. by mundane, I mean things done over to death. I can't really relate to normal or 'average' woes and back stories, being raised on epic fantasy and so things have to be a bit extravagant and or horrifically tragic and ironic to really interest me in playing the character. so a human fighter doesn't cut it. A fighter that used to be human but is trapped eternally in a suit of armor in the body of his clans most hated enemy? thats the ticket.

so, how do templates and the like fit into your games? and whats your opinions on them?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I like 'em, but several need "re-pricing."

 

[the Jester]

I assume that you're talking about 3.x here.

I like templates, but as a dm, not as a player. I'm open to pcs with templates, but I would never allow someone to do so without paying for its LA cost.

I'll also agree that a lot of templates need re-costing as far as level adjustment goes- Feral, I'm looking you square in the eyes.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Just don't use the level buy off thing offered in "unearthed Arcana" because that is too strong! It may break your character!

 

[S'mon]

Just don't use the level buy off thing offered in "unearthed Arcana" because that is too strong! It may break your character!

I think his DM has already been allowing him templates with no LA applied, so that's apparently not a concern.

 

[Stormonu]

I like templates for making monsters (lycanthropes, vampires and such), but really loathe them being used by players. I always enforce any LA's, and since I generally start games at 1st or 2nd level, I haven't had a problem with them.

As to your example, I don't see why someone couldn't have used a "reskinned" warforged to represent the animate armor character instead of using, say a half-golem template.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I like templates. And I use them often without clunky level adjustments. It's fair game if it is same for everyone.

However, sometimes it's nice to have characters that fit into single page. After really long lasting epic games tend to have urge for something normal (and less heavy to run/play).

Re-skinning advice here is good, sometimes you can get theme right with less power. Sometimes though it also ruins the idea.

Or then you can just do it roleplaywise. If rules don't support your power, create story of losing power.

Funnest character I've played with was this 1:st level magic user (necromancer), who according to his background had been some kinda elder god, whose enemies destroyed him and what they coundn't kill they made trapped in human body, and made sure it could never re-ascend. Of course he gained some of his "old memories" and personality flaws to with them.

Yes, you can get "no, didn't happen". Then just make your character "think it did". This is way to get almost any non-annoying background if there is no request of mechanical support or story time for that background. You would leave truth of it up to dm, in actual place.

But generally I don't like starting character having templates either, because it's kinda of story potential lost. It' much more fun when player catches lycantropy in-game, rather than in backstory.

Half-something lemplates get more love and other at-birth stuff.

Also you could ask armor etc to be cursed item mechanically causing something. Item is sometimes easier mechanic to handle things than burden pc with template.

"It's not you, it's that item" is also easier way to help players embrace backgrounds with plot hooks.

 

[Naoki00_]

I like templates. And I use them often without clunky level adjustments. It's fair game if it is same for everyone.

However, sometimes it's nice to have characters that fit into single page. After really long lasting epic games tend to have urge for something normal (and less heavy to run/play).

Re-skinning advice here is good, sometimes you can get theme right with less power. Sometimes though it also ruins the idea.

Or then you can just do it roleplaywise. If rules don't support your power, create story of losing power.

Funnest character I've played with was this 1:st level magic user (necromancer), who according to his background had been some kinda elder god, whose enemies destroyed him and what they coundn't kill they made trapped in human body, and made sure it could never re-ascend. Of course he gained some of his "old memories" and personality flaws to with them.

Yes, you can get "no, didn't happen". Then just make your character "think it did". This is way to get almost any non-annoying background if there is no request of mechanical support or story time for that background. You would leave truth of it up to dm, in actual place.

But generally I don't like starting character having templates either, because it's kinda of story potential lost. It' much more fun when player catches lycantropy in-game, rather than in backstory.

Half-something lemplates get more love and other at-birth stuff.

Also you could ask armor etc to be cursed item mechanically causing something. Item is sometimes easier mechanic to handle things than burden pc with template.

"It's not you, it's that item" is also easier way to help players embrace backgrounds with plot hooks.

I do like re-skinning too myself, though I tend to just make a 'new' less powerful template for that stuff. sometimes though it still doesn't give an oomph that the original had, like the above "it's not undead it's animated armor" idea, thought of that one before, but thematically it doesn't work at all with the story. (the example I gave was a little bit close but not quite my planned idea)

personally I love templates over Magic items, much bigger fan of "this race is better then this race because it just is, evolution and all that" or adding a template to a normal human that's SUPPOSED to be better then usual since in our games the level system is just life experience so even the 80 year old farm worker could have 20 levels without a class if he's been in a militia long enough. The magic item thing is for another forum entirely, but I'll just say I never use magic items unless it's absolutely needed, the guy with a template is just better then normal, the guy laden down with magic items is posing as him and praying to every god the DM doesn't steal his poser bling...thats just me though.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I disallow templates for PCs. Too often it is an attempt to gain an advantageous character (even if covered up by an 'interesting backstory' - not that I'm saying you're doing that).

In my experience, templates make fighter types overpowered and casters underpowered, because of the level adjustment. Without any level adjustment then all bets are off though!

The other problem I have with templates for PCs is that it makes them too wahoo for my liking. I prefer to run campaigns which you could read as a Conan novel or something set in LotR or other fantasy of that ilk.

I might make an exception for a solo campaign (1GM, 1 player), but that is all.

 

[Wiseblood]

Templates are good for DM's but not for players. They are more powerful than feats,, more powerful than spells and more powerful than magic items. Only artifacts add that much power.