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Pathfinder 1E This is why pathfinder has been successful.

I remember a thread where someone from Paizo, I think it was James Jacobs, basically confirmed that they write adventures partly from that assupmtion: they should read well, since many just read them and don't run them.

Now, many do run them, I'm running Kingmaker now, but there are a lot of stuff in there I consider waste of space for me when running it, but great for me when reading it.
Thanks for the reply!

I also should add - I'm not being pejorative (or not meaning to be) in the "read vs play" distinction. I buy more 4e rulebooks - with items, powers, monsters etc - than are likely to see play in my lifetime, although I would probably have used at least one element from each of the GM-oriented books I have, and have incorporated in meaningful ways quite a bit of the flavour sidears from the *Power books.

But that's still playing quite a bit for the content that I'm actually using to play. The rest I use (to borrow a euphamism) for "inspiration". That is, I enjoy reading it and thinking about the game with reference to it.

I don't like reading adventures (or even long descriptions of fantasy settings) anywhere near as much as mechanical game elements, though. I'm one of the minority who overall dislikes the increase in story-style fiction in 4e with MM3 and Essentials.
 

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Eh, what actually happens in 3e/PF is that people worry too much about provoking them, they lead to careful square-counting, static combat, and a much slower game.
That hasn't been my experience at all. IME, AoOs present players with tactical choices that make combat much more interesting. I rarely see a 3e/PF combat where at least one character doesn't freely choose to provoke an AoO in order to gain some benefit he deems worth the risk. YMMV, of course.
 


This came up on a thread some months ago: Mallus suggested that a lot of PF subscribers must be reading more than playing, the suggestion was queried, and then the pagecount of material that a subscriber would be getting was put forward. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I seem to recall many 100s of pages of scenarios per year.

The one thing with the APs is to also realize they aren't all adventure. There is a short fiction piece, a supplementary bestiary section, sometimes a new mechanic or rule (i.e. mass combat, kingdom building, etc.) in the AP as well. So even if you aren't running the adventure there are lots of goodies to tap into for your own game and even in your own world in many cases. It is an interesting tactic.
 

I have to say though, I'm tempted to see if it's possible to just use the PRD to take BB PCs above 5th level. The great beauty of the BB for me is the way it strips out cruft like Attacks of Opportunity, from one perspective those 'missing' bits could perhaps simply be treated as house rules for the main game.

I think it would be pretty easy to take the BB above 5th level with just a little work to tweak it for the higher levels. Probably just using the E6 people's ideas would do most of the heavy lifting.

It is easy to strip AoO's from the game with a house rule if that is one of the larger concerns. I don't have an issue with them, but if it works for your group to house rule them out, then go for it! Everyone's needs are a little different and sometimes a simple house rule gives you the game you want to run with minimal hassle.
 

I think Paizo came up with a wonderful way to sell an RPG/leisure magazine for £15 an issue, by packaging it as a series of adventures. The two AP issues I have, the actual adventure is less than half the content.
The one thing with the APs is to also realize they aren't all adventure. There is a short fiction piece, a supplementary bestiary section, sometimes a new mechanic or rule (i.e. mass combat, kingdom building, etc.) in the AP as well. So even if you aren't running the adventure there are lots of goodies to tap into for your own game and even in your own world in many cases. It is an interesting tactic.
I've never actually seen a Paizo AP product, so this is interesting too me. The two of you are making it sound a bit like the "Better Homes and Gardens" or "Country Living" of fantasy RPGing.

That is an interesting, and apparently successful, tactic.
 

I've never actually seen a Paizo AP product, so this is interesting too me. The two of you are making it sound a bit like the "Better Homes and Gardens" or "Country Living" of fantasy RPGing.

That is an interesting, and apparently successful, tactic.

They were, in part, intended to replace Dragon and Dungeon magazines in Paizo's product line.
 

Pathfinder Adventure Path is not a "Better Homes and Gardens" approach, rather, it is a thematic monthly book that presents, typically:

- a 2 page introduction
- a 50 page adventure
- a 10 page regional background article
- a 8 page article on a god or religion of Golarion
- a 8 page fiction article
- a dozen pages of Bestiary material
- a couple of pages of ads

The individual page attributions devoted to each “section” might vary a little from the above, but that is a fair summary of the overall average issue of Pathfinder Adventure Path.

With respect to its readability, yes, Paizo has always emphasized that aspect of its adventure material. Long before Pathfinder AP was ever conceived, Messrs Mona and Jacobs realized while publishing Dungeon Magazine that people bought the magazine regularly, but did not run the adventures in it regularly -- or often -- at all.

Yes, the magazine was collected and sometimes referred to many years later. At other times, the adventures would be pilfered, in whole or in part (usually in part) for homebrewed adventures.

Even when a GM would run an adventure within it (the occurrence of which was gratifyingly increased when Dungeon started featuring Adventure Paths) there were TWO OTHER adventures in that issue of the magazine that were not receiving nearly the same care, attention or use.

So why were people valuing that content? Paizo appreciated that the main utility -- the value in use to their subscribers -- was in reading the adventure. After all, there are many readers and subscribers who, for whatever reason, are not currently in a gaming group, and others still who are in a group but are playing or running something else. In fact, the overwhelming majority of readers are playing something else (if they are playing at all) when they received the magazine. The immediate value they obtained from it was obviously in the reading of it.

There's no shame in recognizing that fundamental fact and in ensuring that the adventure not only plays well, but that it reads well, too.

That editorial philosophy has been demonstrably successful at Paizo for almost ten years. Given the sheer volume of adventure material that it puts out, -- much of it consumed by the same customers every month -- it remains a guiding editorial philosophy at Paizo. After all, I subscribe to everything Paizo puts out and I have a great deal of trouble reading even half of it each month. But I do try to do so – enjoy doing so – and there are lots of customers like me. My guess is that they enjoy reading it, too.

Sometimes, in fact, I would argue that this devotion to making sure an adventure is "a good read" can (and does) adversely affect their overall adventure presentation. I find this problem is underscored most often when the adventure author spills a LOT of ink on a backstory or other explanation for an event or series of events in the adventure that never, EVER, has an opportunity to emerge during play. When you recognize this when reading the adventure, you realize that the backstory is there to make that aspect of the adventure more interesting to The Reader -- not because it is necessary to the GM or the players.

While this can sometimes be frustrating, on balance, I wouldn't have it any other way.
 

Adventure Path?

Adventure Path you say?

Hmm... I like this idea of an Adventure Path.

So, since the modern, planned and orchestrated product of an "Adventure Path" was created and still is spearheaded by Paizo, I have to ask why every time those two words are spelled out in a post on this forum it automatically hyperlinks it to someone else's product?
 
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Adventure Path?

Adventure Path you say?

Hmm... I like this idea of an Adventure Path.

So, since the modern, planned and orchestrated product of an "Adventure Path" was created and still is spearheaded by Paizo, I have to ask why every time those two words are spelled out in a post on this forum it automatically hyperlinks it to someone else's product?

It's a consequence of a new "auto tag" feature that Russ added to the site in December.

I think that Paizo will survive the diversion of traffic.
 

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