I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
CM said:
The MV, I think, is a step in the right direction (as is the Dark Sun creature book). I'd like them to go farther, of course, but it is on the right course, I believe.
What do you want from the Monster Manual?
- Thread starter ForeverSlayer
- Start date
The MV, I think, is a step in the right direction (as is the Dark Sun creature book). I'd like them to go farther, of course, but it is on the right course, I believe.
prosfilaes
Adventurer
This frustrated the heck out of me with the Pathfinder Bestiary. Each type of dragon gets two pages, with young, adult and ancient worked out. Blue & White get three sentences of description, Green, Red, Brass and Gold get two, and Bronze, Copper and Silver get one. If you actually want to roleplay a dragon, you need the Pathfinder Dragon book, or the Monster Manual from another edition of D&D.
prosfilaes
Adventurer
I'm a man. Looking at an index is akin to asking for driving directions.
Bah. Scholars are men, and know that if the index doesn't at least equal the text, it can but be a good start.
avin
First Post
- I want my ecologies back (2E style)
- Good non recycled art
- Stay away from spell lists - everything must be on monster sheet
- 3rd editions for monster creation should be an option, but monster creation should be easy like in 4E.
- Yugoloths.
Monster variations (lots of orcs) could be in DDI.
4E fomorian's ecology must stay, it's better than former versions.
- Good non recycled art
- Stay away from spell lists - everything must be on monster sheet
- 3rd editions for monster creation should be an option, but monster creation should be easy like in 4E.
- Yugoloths.
Monster variations (lots of orcs) could be in DDI.
4E fomorian's ecology must stay, it's better than former versions.
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Lord Zack
Explorer
For creatures like orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc. I'd rather see a bunch of generic stats that can be used for any of them, with the racial traits then added on. This is mostly to avoid cases like the goblin warrior and kobold skirmisher being almost identical and thus being a waste to have two separate statblocks and to have more space for "fluff".
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
If I could have my wish?
The 5E monster manual would have detailed fantasy write-ups like they did back in AD&D...vivid descriptions, background, and info about how they get along with other creatures in the world. This way, no matter what version of the game you are playing, you will still get your money's worth from the book. I would bring in professional fantasy writers, such as Terry Brooks, R.A. Salvatore, and/or Tracy Hickman, to lead this effort.
Even so, it would have complete stats, too, along the lines of Pathfinder and 4E. They would need to be detailed enough to be used as stand-alone characters, for those situations where the party takes one of the monsters prisoner, or befriends it (or buys it off), or whatever, and you need it to stick around as a full-fledged NPC for a few gaming sessions.
It would have fantasy artwork. Not cheesy or campy, not cartoons or comic books, not wuxia or sci-fi...just classic fantasy artwork. I would make Jeremy Jarvis the lead production artist on the project, with Jeff Easley as art director. (Hey, as long as we are dreaming here, let's dream BIG.)
There would be many different indices, to help us find the right monster for the right situation. At a minimum, it would have lists:
--sorted in alphabetical order
--sorted by challenge rating
--sorted by habitat or environment
--sorted by creature type
--sorted by alignment
--sorted by the spells that can summon them
There would be a chapter with tips and rules for improving monsters, and for creating new ones...with all of the different varieties of skeletons and zombies presented as examples. Templates and variants would all be found in this chapter as well.
There would be a chapter for monster races, where the DM could find all of the races that didn't make it into the PHB (*cough* dragonborn *cough*). Racial variants would be found in this chapter. This chapter would also have tips and rules for creating custom monster PC races for our campaigns.
There would be a chapter filled with random encounter tables, for all of the most common terrain types, and guidelines for creating our own custom random encounter tables.
The whole thing would be about 400 pages, and cost about $50.
That would be my wish.
The 5E monster manual would have detailed fantasy write-ups like they did back in AD&D...vivid descriptions, background, and info about how they get along with other creatures in the world. This way, no matter what version of the game you are playing, you will still get your money's worth from the book. I would bring in professional fantasy writers, such as Terry Brooks, R.A. Salvatore, and/or Tracy Hickman, to lead this effort.
Even so, it would have complete stats, too, along the lines of Pathfinder and 4E. They would need to be detailed enough to be used as stand-alone characters, for those situations where the party takes one of the monsters prisoner, or befriends it (or buys it off), or whatever, and you need it to stick around as a full-fledged NPC for a few gaming sessions.
It would have fantasy artwork. Not cheesy or campy, not cartoons or comic books, not wuxia or sci-fi...just classic fantasy artwork. I would make Jeremy Jarvis the lead production artist on the project, with Jeff Easley as art director. (Hey, as long as we are dreaming here, let's dream BIG.)
There would be many different indices, to help us find the right monster for the right situation. At a minimum, it would have lists:
--sorted in alphabetical order
--sorted by challenge rating
--sorted by habitat or environment
--sorted by creature type
--sorted by alignment
--sorted by the spells that can summon them
There would be a chapter with tips and rules for improving monsters, and for creating new ones...with all of the different varieties of skeletons and zombies presented as examples. Templates and variants would all be found in this chapter as well.
There would be a chapter for monster races, where the DM could find all of the races that didn't make it into the PHB (*cough* dragonborn *cough*). Racial variants would be found in this chapter. This chapter would also have tips and rules for creating custom monster PC races for our campaigns.
There would be a chapter filled with random encounter tables, for all of the most common terrain types, and guidelines for creating our own custom random encounter tables.
The whole thing would be about 400 pages, and cost about $50.
That would be my wish.
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I want notation to the side of every ability score the way that some Pathfinder monsters are listed.
Why is the AC this score? The notation is in the parenthesis to the side.
I'd also like to see this for ability. Why does this demon have such a high strength at 14th level or CR14? Why is the fortitude higher than 10+strength or constitution when no monster feats are listed and no racial traits or class features are listed?
I also want a brief description of the monster's organization and basic encounter tactics. Make it easy for the GM to put this monster into his or her game. Give him the details he needs -- practical details.
Monster powers, spells need to be detailed if they are not already found in a handbook.
Why is the AC this score? The notation is in the parenthesis to the side.
I'd also like to see this for ability. Why does this demon have such a high strength at 14th level or CR14? Why is the fortitude higher than 10+strength or constitution when no monster feats are listed and no racial traits or class features are listed?
I also want a brief description of the monster's organization and basic encounter tactics. Make it easy for the GM to put this monster into his or her game. Give him the details he needs -- practical details.
Monster powers, spells need to be detailed if they are not already found in a handbook.
Ratskinner
Adventurer
If its done 3.x style... more difficult than its worth. No, its not calculus homework, but it doesn't have to be.
Maybe. That would be a lot of themes to keep monsters from feeling repetitve across tribes, though. Hard to say too much about it without even knowing the PC themes, and they've said they haven't really even started to worry about the monsters yet.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
If I open my Monster Manuel 1, and flip to a tribal monster like kobold and get 1 stat block I will feel it is a giant leap back in usefulness.
I can take the kobold and add sorcerer levels, or cleric, or fighter just fine (infact I have for years). Howeve I love the 4e style.
A kobold Dragon shield is not a lev 3 kobold fighter, and a Wyrm priest is not a level 5 cleric.
I can take the kobold and add sorcerer levels, or cleric, or fighter just fine (infact I have for years). Howeve I love the 4e style.
A kobold Dragon shield is not a lev 3 kobold fighter, and a Wyrm priest is not a level 5 cleric.
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
Perhaps. But, I feel, in general, the tribal monsters especially and all monsters to a certain extent, do get repetitive. We [anyone who's been playing for any amount of time] have a built in knowledge or at least conception of what a kobold or a goblin or orc is like. To keep them from being repetitive, then that puts the onus on the DM to take some time and make them their own (as, I feel, it should be).
The MM doesn't have to give me 3-5 different kobolds or goblins or orcs so I can be "different" with "my" masterpiece kobold/goblin/orc. The themes presented for PCs should be more than adequate to give your tribal humanoids some diversity without necessarily having to each be a special snowflake...but if you want that "extra level of complexity", the guidelines are there for you to implement (probably detailed in the DMG but I see no reason not to have some guidleines in the front or back in an appendix of the MM as well.)
If the PC "barbarian" who has the berserker theme can do XYZ, then why shouldn't an orc with the same theme? You don't have to give me a separate stat block for "Orc Berserker."
I'm thinkin' something like this...I open the MM and turn to "Goblin."
There, with a lovely picture, is the stat block for joe-shmoe-average goblin warrior that you are going to be encountering 8 or 9 times out of 10. The "skirmisher" Theme [just as example] is built in to the stats and detailed in the fluffy description goodness. As well as things like "tribal organization/life", size of the "average" community, how many goblins get a "captain/elite warrior", how many more have a king with/among them, etc. How they thrive on/excel at Ambushing, setting (and luring into) traps, etc...general tactics.
Then in a nice, neat lil' sidebar, colored block off to the side:
"To diversify your band/tribe of goblins, the following additional themes and abilities are suggested: Archer, Hunter, Spearman, Sneak Attack, or any other Skill or class ability of the Rogue class.
To create a goblin shaman or witch-doctor: +X to AC; -Y to HP; Apply the shaman and or sorcerer Themes with spells appropriate for [up to] a 4th level caster; or any other Skill of the Mage or Cleric class.
To create a goblin king/chieftain: +X to AC; +Y to HP; remove attack penalty for acting in daylight; any other Skill or Class ability of the Fighter class.
Elite/Bodyguards of the goblin tribe: +X to AC; automatic max hit points; remove penalty for acting in daylight; add the "hunter" Theme or any Combat Maneuver [Exploit/Fighting Style/whatever they will call them] available to the Fighter Class."
That sounds like more than enough. "Goblin Archer" vs. "Goblin Trap-layer" vs. "Goblin Ambusher" or "Goblin Bone-caster Rune-Wizard", etc. etc. Is not necessary.To create a goblin shaman or witch-doctor: +X to AC; -Y to HP; Apply the shaman and or sorcerer Themes with spells appropriate for [up to] a 4th level caster; or any other Skill of the Mage or Cleric class.
To create a goblin king/chieftain: +X to AC; +Y to HP; remove attack penalty for acting in daylight; any other Skill or Class ability of the Fighter class.
Elite/Bodyguards of the goblin tribe: +X to AC; automatic max hit points; remove penalty for acting in daylight; add the "hunter" Theme or any Combat Maneuver [Exploit/Fighting Style/whatever they will call them] available to the Fighter Class."
So if you want just want an average goblin [normal stat block] using a bow, no sweat. But if you want an "Archer" goblin, with whatever tricks that will entail, you can just tack it on. OR/AND for those who like going totally "off-piste" they have the door open to add in pretty much anything via theme and/or background and/or class abilities you want.
The DM who wants Kobold "Wyrm Priests" or "Dragon Shields" or ranger frost-goblins who mush along sleds pulled by dire ice-toads and fight with arcebuses, having discovered gun-powder, as well as having tracking and stealth in tundra terrain, and "favored enemy" of the caribou-riding "snow elves" they vie for hunting territory with...is welcome, as s/he always has been, to do so however they like, make them the creatures they want.
But the MM doesn't have to be [it simply can't possibly be] filled with multiple pages of different permutations for the same creature, generally speaking (not counting the aforementioned up thread "big categories" like giants, elementals, dragons, etc. which obviously need more than 2 pages for the various types.), simply because we live in an era of "immediate access all of the time."..at least not without a 500 page Monster Manual, which is, you must admit, rather unrealistic.
If you [not any "you" here specifically, the general "you"] want the special snowflake goblins, put in the time, roll 'em up! And, hopefully, Have a ball doing it!
"But I don't have the time! The book needs to do it for me." is not a valid argument. So, you don't have the time? So what? Play 'em. Tweak 'em. Play 'em again. Learn the game and it should come fairly easily. It went to easy? Make 'em tougher next time. Try 'em again. It was too hard (gods forbid a TPK!)? Make 'em weaker.
And since it will be the same as using the PC themes/backgrounds, it shouldn't take too long before you know what each theme entails (or can easily access it through the PHB).
Orcs might have the "berserker" theme built-in to their stat block, Kobolds, almost certainly, would have the skirmisher themes built in or perhaps a "Miner" background. Gnolls maybe get a "hunter/tracker" theme built-in?...with, then, other suggested themes or abilities in the side bar for diversification.
Does this sound like a "giant leap back in usefulness"?
Yes, you still might have to "tack something on", but maybe not if "savage hunter gnolls" works for you...or at the very least most of your average encounters are taken care of with the "generic/average guy" stats.
The amount of work in adding a theme should be significantly less than what I've heard about 3e style monster-building...and [rather importantly to my mind for 5e] no "online monster builder" is necessary...I'm sure they'll still have/offer one, but it's not necessary. And, for those that enjoy that level of complexity/work, you could still do up individual goblins/orcs/etc., more or less, from scratch if you wanted to.
But only 1 "average-joe" stat block is needed as your baseline. Not an "average" stats, "elite" stats, "solo" stats..."spell caster stats" and whatever else people think are flavorful...which, in reality, would be an endless list. Yes, we've been told "minions" [in some form/implementation] will still be in the game. That's fine...make that the baseline/average guy then.
I'm rambling a bit here, I think. But...yeah...
One stat block with sidebarred suggested extra themes/abilities. Should still be easily doable, and easily integrated, along with whatever fluff/description is presented within a 2 page spread. I think it sounds like a reasonable compromise and gives everyone some measure of what they prefer to work with [I think].
Happy Thursday, all.
--SD
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