HACKMASTER Basic - for free!

[Treebore]

I consider it part of a set of games (called hack master) that started as a retro clone and parody... I am unsure if it really out grew that.

It is a radically different rules set, it has absolutely outgrown any such thing. Especially since to be a "clone" a high degree of inter compatibility and similarity must be maintained. The new HM is not in any way easy to convert back to the old version, let alone AD&D, so it most assuredly is not a clone.

 

[Dire Bare]

I consider it part of a set of games (called hack master) that started as a retro clone and parody... I am unsure if it really out grew that.

If you feel that way, but interact with folks who've played the game and universally say your assumption is incorrect, but you still feel that way, then it seems pretty clear that you made up your mind even before interacting with anyone. I don't quite know what that accomplishes for you - maybe it makes it easier for you to avoid investing your time and money in a game you're prepared to dislike?

In any case, I'm sure folks can make up their own minds about HM. What's really important is that you are having fun playing ANY game - more gamers is always better!

It is a radically different rules set, it has absolutely outgrown any such thing. Especially since to be a "clone" a high degree of inter compatibility and similarity must be maintained. The new HM is not in any way easy to convert back to the old version, let alone AD&D, so it most assuredly is not a clone.

The current version of the HackMaster rules may not be intended as a parody, they may be very different from the original HM rules, and HM might just be a great fantasy RPG set of rules . . . . . . . .

But to get all bent out of shape when people see the game as a parody of D&D is deliberately ignoring the history of the game, and the HackMaster brand. Before there was even a set of rules, the HackMaster game as featured in the Knights of the Dinner Table was most certainly a parody of D&D. When Kenzer developed the first set of HM rules, they were a retroclone of 1st and 2nd Ed D&D and the setting of the game was also very much a parody of D&D. The game, more importantly, the brand, was founded as a parody of the original and most beloved of RPG games. And the name, HackMaster . . . I just can't take that seriously, regardless of the rules underneath the logo.

Kenzer is trying to take a parody brand and turn it around into a serious game with a ridiculous name, and IMO it's no wonder it's still perceived as a parody RPG. I think they would have been much better served leaving HackMaster in the realm of parody and creating a new flagship fantasy game for the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting.

For those who love the new game, more power to you! I trust you when you say the new game is no longer a parody of D&D . . . but it just isn't going to shake the taste of parody, no matter how hard you try. Accept it.

 

[mhensley]

I'm really looking forward to taking a look at the new phb at gencon this week. Making the basic book free really gets rid of the last barrier to getting my group to give it a try.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Hey I would love to be wrong. I played older hm and I dont dislike them, but it does come off as a parody. I DO PLAN TO READ THIS FREE, BOOK OVER THE WEEKEND, and play it

 

[KJSEvans]

For those who love the new game, more power to you! I trust you when you say the new game is no longer a parody of D&D . . . but it just isn't going to shake the taste of parody, no matter how hard you try. Accept it.

I've been talking about HM ever since I started playing it, with a large number of folks. This is the first time, in person or on the net, that I've encountered anybody who seems to insist that HM is a parody game, or that it's even SEEN as a parody game. If that's how you feel, then you are in the minority (and you are quite possibly missing out).

But believe me - nobody's bent out of shape. I respect any gamer who's playing what he or she loves. However, if you are seeking information on a game I love, I'm happy to provide it.

BTW - I and a number of other GMs run HM online using programs like Roll20, MapTools+Ventrilo, G+, etc. If anybody is interested in trying out the game, you are welcome to shoot me a PM and I will try to arrange a demo on your behalf.

 

[Maggan]

I've been talking about HM ever since I started playing it, with a large number of folks. This is the first time, in person or on the net, that I've encountered anybody who seems to insist that HM is a parody game, or that it's even SEEN as a parody game.

Interesting.

KenzerCo wrote in the foreword to the first Hackmaster rules that it was a parody game, and they also acknowledge that in the foreword to this Hackmaster Basic download.

And the history is very much as a parody game in the comics. So the flipside to your observation for me is that it is a parody game that can be played in several ways, even as a "serious" game.

That those who see it as a parody game are in a minority is strange to me, since the game billed itself a parody game.

And to me, being a parody game doesn't detract from the quality of the game.

EDIT: a thought came to me, maybe you mean only the current incarnation of Hackmaster?

Cheers

/M

 

[griffonwing]

Interesting.

KenzerCo wrote in the foreword to the first Hackmaster rules that it was a parody game, and they also acknowledge that in the foreword to this Hackmaster Basic download.

And the history is very much as a parody game in the comics. So the flipside to your observation for me is that it is a parody game that can be played in several ways, even as a "serious" game.

That those who see it as a parody game are in a minority is strange to me, since the game billed itself a parody game.

And to me, being a parody game doesn't detract from the quality of the game.

EDIT: a thought came to me, maybe you mean only the current incarnation of Hackmaster?

Cheers

/M

Yes, I do believe KJSEvans was referring to the new iteration (HackMaster) as opposed to the older version (HackMaster 4th edition).

K&Co decided to keep the 5th edition suffix off of the new HM to emphasize that this was not a sequal or a continuance of the spoof/parody game, but a game unto itself. To quote a cliche, it's honestly like comparing apples to oranges.

The history of HM was definitely full-on parody and over-the-top humor, but then, it had to be, based upon the requirements of WOTC. With Wizards out of the picture, and with Kenzer creating this game from the ground up, the spoofing parody was tossed. However, they did keep the Garyspeak, and some of the humor stayed; after all, gaming is suppose to be fun.

I never had a chance to play the parody HM4e, as my group was into 2nd edition DnD and then into 3rd, and RIFTS, SpellJammer. I do now have copies of the books, yet I have never played them. Reading them, tho, does seem like it would be a blast to play. Still yet, I much prefer the newer iteration. The 'new' mechanics that this game uses just seems innovative, even though they have been used in other systems before, individually; being brought together and refined into this system simply makes a lot of sense, as a gamer.

Hey I would love to be wrong. I played older hm and I dont dislike them, but it does come off as a parody. I DO PLAN TO READ THIS FREE, BOOK OVER THE WEEKEND, and play it

Honoestly, reading the book and drawing your own conclusion on the game is all anyone could ever ask. Even if you decided that the system sucked and that it was not your style, at least it would be an informed opinion.

 

[GeorgeFields]

My god. This is the most disgusting system I've ever seen! And people say D&D 4e inhibits role-playing.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

I was ready to give up playing RPGs before this was originally released in 2009. I read a thread on the Kenzer boards about the game before it was released and decided to pre-order it. My love for RPGs was completely rejuvenated.

I was lucky enough to gather up most of my AD&D2e group and started a campaign. It was more fun than than we remember gaming back in the 90s.

As far as the parody element, does it really matter? HM4e was admittedly parodied from AD&D, but it was a strong and solid system behind all of that.
Admittedly, I never played it because I was deep into D&D3e at the time.

The bottom line is this. We're all gamers. Play the games that you love. Try other games out from time to time. If you don't like it, move along. If you do like it, maybe you can work it into your gaming life.

If you don't like a game, there's no need to talk bad about it or the people that play it. If someone talks bad about your game, it's all his/her opinion - move on and don't worry about it.
It all about personal preferences. None of us are wrong about the games we love.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

The core of HackMaster (the previous edition) was basically EVERYTHING that had been published for 1st & 2nd edition AD&D, from the early issues of Dragon to the 2e "splatbooks" and even Skills & Powers. So, playing a character in HackMaster with the core + the HackMaster splatbook for you class was basically like playing AD&D 2e with absolutely all the rules ever published for your class being available -- and that is kind of a parody in its own right.

Just like AD&D, most people played HackMaster using the rules they wanted to use and discarded the rest.

Now, as for the new edition, I don't know much about it. I do know that I was underwhelmed by the Basic rulebook. And I really didn't need the same section on dice reprinted from the HackMaster book -- that was just filler. But I will eventually download this revised version, once I can find my registration password thing for Kenzer.

 

[Falstaff]

The core of HackMaster (the previous edition) was basically EVERYTHING that had been published for 1st & 2nd edition AD&D, from the early issues of Dragon to the 2e "splatbooks" and even Skills & Powers. So, playing a character in HackMaster with the core + the HackMaster splatbook for you class was basically like playing AD&D 2e with absolutely all the rules ever published for your class being available -- and that is kind of a parody in its own right.

Just like AD&D, most people played HackMaster using the rules they wanted to use and discarded the rest.

Now, as for the new edition, I don't know much about it. I do know that I was underwhelmed by the Basic rulebook. And I really didn't need the same section on dice reprinted from the HackMaster book -- that was just filler. But I will eventually download this revised version, once I can find my registration password thing for Kenzer.

No need to register or add to cart. Scroll about half-way down the page and there's a link to the PDF.

Kenzer & Company