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D&D 5E Wish and True Names: Cosmic Fireworks

Ainamacar

Adventurer
OK, the 12/17 playtest has our first glimpse at 5e Wish, the tricky spell par excellence. The devs are clearly trying a new way through this thicket by introducing a new approach to disincentivizing its use by preventing further spell-casting and reducing strength while also leaving the open-ended DM consequences of yore. I think it is worth analyzing the new version to see how or if it alters some of the traditional issues people have had with the spell. In addition, I think there might be room to introduce true names into the spell in a way that bridges some of the different analyses from the perspective of players, PCs, world-building, and individual NPCs.

Before I go on, let me note that I recognize the variety of historical opinion on the spell, from believing it should not exist to letting casters get away with pretty much anything to eagerly hoisting casters on their own petard. More than any other spell, enjoyable use or avoidance of Wish depends on the table contract. Any version of Wish worthy of the name risks these divergences of opinion, so I don't think the goal shouldn't be to write the spell that operates in strictly one way, but rather one that lets the players and DMs work out that relationship more smoothly.

My opinion of the new version is that the "anyspell" usage is pretty much fine, but that for other effects the penalties of casting the spell are too strong in the short term (< week) and too weak in the long-term. The short term effects strongly incentivize casting wish to settings that are likely to be secure for a few days or truly desperate situations. The problem is that there are many moderate uses of wish that needn't effectively prevent adventuring for several days, and an important part of Wish is the risk-reward payoff which is much less meaningful when the player has almost no reason to cast the spell until the situation is so desperate that almost any risk will be worth the alternative anyway.

And in the long-term, the stated ability of Wish to create wealth as either mundane or magical objects means that, in situations that are very likely to be safe there is very little reason not to do so for NPCs or PCs. (Imagine, for example, a caster that sits in an extra-dimensional space in their already heavily protected sanctum, has a clone on standby, and so on.) The players and DM might have a gentleman's agreement, but the fact that the metagame incentives may differ so much from the setting ones introduces rather than relaxes tension. In 3e this entire setting vs. metagame exchange was addressed with XP costs, but those had their own unique dysfunctions and have been left behind for a host of good reasons. Even earlier Wish aged the caster but this can be of quite variable concern to the caster or player. Is there another way?

I've been wondering if the introduction of true names into the latest playtest might help serve this function. My basic premise is that Wish, as the limit of reality-bending mortal magic, is the kind of spell that both utilizes the caster's fundamental connection to reality (as represented via true name) and has the unfortunate tendency to advertise the same the more severe reality has been altered, the "cosmic fireworks" of the thread title. Now, this kind of trade-off already exists in the traditional free-from risk vs. reward of the wish spell, but that freeform risk is so arbitrary that it is almost impossible to estimate from either an in-setting or metagame standpoint without very careful communication. Moreover, those outcomes may be either short term or long term and may or may not materially affect the players or PCs in ways they actually care about, so any balancing costs with respect to PC abilities or resources (which usually fall clearly into the short-term or long-term categories) are likewise unfixed.

Suppose that powerful uses of Wish imposed a d% chance of "attracting attention" to the caster's true name (and thus also the caster) in a way that scaled with the overall strength of the wish. For common wishes this can be defined explicitly, and for free-form wishes the DM has a simple measure of risk they can choose to communicate to the player to whatever degree of vagueness desired. For example, one DM might choose to say that a given wish has a 36% chance of attracting attention to a true name, while another might simply ballpark that value. How the true name can be used for or against a caster has a lot of possibilities, but since it is a concept grounded in setting with some known (and plenty of potentially unknown) mechanical effects the incentives for players, DMs, PCs, NPCs, and the setting at large share a connection. Moreover, attention drawn to a true name will almost always be a long-term "campaign resource" for the DM, and so the risk can be set with that in mind. That being the case, one could loosen the currently strong short-term disincentives on casting Wish, allowing for a more meaningful risk vs. reward exchange in the short term while maintaining good long-term disincentives to powerful Wishes. Finally, this should both help to moderate the wide variety of DM responses to Wish while also granting them more latitude when it comes to determining interesting side-effects of wishes, and especially short-term side effects, since these no longer have to serve as the only major deterrent against powerful Wishes.

How might this look? Perhaps the short-term impact of casting wish is a stacking -1 to attacks, checks, saves, etc. that goes away by 1 per long rest, a bit like how Raise Dead works. The impact on the wealth creating uses of Wish might look something like this:
"For every 1000 gp of value in the object created there is a 1% chance of revealing information about your true name (minimum 1%)."
A caster that tried to create something worth 100,000 gp at once would definitely attract attention, but even a clever caster that created items worth 1999 gp per casting over 50 castings (i.e. a 1% chance/casting) would have roughly a 40% chance of being noticed at least once. If they cast it 100 times they have a roughly 64% chance of being noticed at least once. Eventually those odds will catch up, and powerful creatures will have to seriously weigh whether the benefit from the wish is worth the risk of someone gaining power over them via true name. Plenty of casters might be reckless or greedy (no doubt more than a few came to the attention of fiends in this manner) but the lich scheming in his inner sanctum for 2000 years will get his funds some other way. I think this represents a credible mechanical and setting answer to the question of why those who can cast Wish don't do so all the time while also leaving the spell in the game as a powerful option that avoids some of the issues of the past.

One rub with the current rules is that true names apparently evolve after use. The balance motivations to do so are obvious, but it does suggest a number of avenues for abuse where a creature induces its true name to constantly change so that "old true names" no longer hold any value. This point needs to be addressed anyway because such abuse would largely obviate the value of true names mechanically and in the game world. After all, with such a practice the true name of any fiend in a tome from last year, to say nothing of last epoch, is all but guaranteed not to be accurate.
 

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GX.Sigma

Adventurer
If you look at the powerful devils, they can only cast wish once a year. How the hell (no pun intended) does a mortal spellcaster manage to cast it every day? A wish should have a huge impact on the campaign--I think it should be a once-per-campaign thing.
 

Ainamacar

Adventurer
If you look at the powerful devils, they can only cast wish once a year. How the hell (no pun intended) does a mortal spellcaster manage to cast it every day? A wish should have a huge impact on the campaign--I think it should be a once-per-campaign thing.

By preparing and casting it every day, like any other spell? I mean, why are devils only able to cast it once per year? Just about the only thing everyone agrees on is that unlimited wishes are a bad idea, but the details of the restrictions are pretty much arbitrary, leaving DMs free to adjust to taste due to both mechanics and setting -- an objective "should" doesn't enter into it. I don't care what restrictions you adopt, but I do care that the version in the books works with minimal changes at the vast majority of tables, and that as best as possible the incentives set up within the world and by the mechanics in that baseline version don't diverge wildly. At the many tables where Wish might be just another 9th-level spell that can be prepared and cast as normal, suggesting that Wish only be allowed once per campaign or once per year isn't much of a solution, nor does it offer guidance to develop a solution usable at that table. On the other hand, if one wants Wish only once per campaign, it is a one-phrase house rule.

It is the same issue with Raise Dead and all other spells with potentially major campaign consequences. In my opinion it is almost always wisest to write a version that works with the least restrictive major playstyles, but is easily modified for more restrictive ones.
 

JasonZZ

Explorer
Supporter
My wish fix: you can cast it once, then that version stops working for you. To cast it again, you have to find a new version (there are an arbitrary number), or research a new version.
 

Tovec

Explorer
Personally I would love to see wish, or extremely strong magic like it, work only as the result of a confluence of very powerful magics or at rare instances. That way it isn't just a regular cost that can be easily paid. And that way it isn't cast(ed?) too often. And of course so that when the players need the spell they can actually do it without sacrificing all their time devoted to nothing but casting a spell.

Perhaps the spell is easy enough to find but it requires a special sacifice, trading a soul, or sacrificing a virgin, or a pint of unicorn blood, or whatever for the desired result. This is VERY common when it comes to powerful spells, or especially "wish" ones. Special costs like this help make the spell a little scarcer, as it is unlikely they can collect the necessary component - though they can if they are in desperate need as it isn't impossible. Plus (unlike my next suggestion) the timing on the casting of the spell can be more specified once the components are in place. In addition, if 'trading the soul' then it can be overt or subtle as needed. Maybe you make a wish but chance to lose your soul (or outright lose it) if things go poorly (or well).

Perhaps wishes, or magic like it, only capable of happening at a specific times or places. The spell could be a non-combat able spell, taking hour(s) but able to be cast only during the first full moon of the month, or only during blue moons, or at special lay lines of magical power (the strongest of which are remote or defended perhaps?). Or eclipse or planetary alignment, or whatever is appropriate for that game. I'm sure there are avenues to explore here. This idea works well with wish as well as any form of highly powerful or rare magic. A true resurrection spell, to bring back ANYONE no matter what condition or how long dead; may require a special hallowed place under the full moon. Can be combined with the first idea.

Lastly, maybe wish just requires immense power and strength by the "caster". Perhaps that is why genies, devils or whatever else is wanted/needed can do it but maybe mortals can only get a wish by summoning and bargaining/dominating these kinds of creatures. That might allow wish to still exist, and exist as an extremely powerful form, but require the caster to use other spells, and perhaps several different ones (summon + bind + dominate = wish) in order to get the preferred result. It also explains how these creatures, while persuaded may want (or be otherwise able) to screw the caster who is trying to force them to use the ability. Maybe significantly powerful creatures (like genies) have the innate ability to cast wishes (more often than once per year) but it hurts them, demeans them, or in some other way they just don't want to cast the spell, unless forced to by those crafty mortal wizards.
 

bbjore

First Post
My wish fix: you can cast it once, then that version stops working for you. To cast it again, you have to find a new version (there are an arbitrary number), or research a new version.

I love this idea, consider it stolen. I do worry that by making the penalty for using it so large, that it creates a strong disincentive to prepare it. Because of this, I wonder if it might work better as a ritual or something (scroll maybe?) prepared ahead of time (so you can hold the wish indefinitely), or just make it a ritual with a 1 round casting time (unsure if there is a precedent for this).

Bringing true names into it is interesting as well, but I'm curious how they plan on making that whole system work. I think true names would probably work better if they changed every level rather than every spell. That way your deeds in life have an effect on it. You are not just Grom, son of Grok, son of Groll... You are Grom, son of Grok, son of Groll, kobold bane, destroyer of Homlet, eater of elves... It'd make a fun game of figuring out what your characters true name would be (essentially a history of awesome stuff), and it'd cause high level creatures to have tremendously long and unwieldy true names, making it more difficult to use them.
 

malcolm_n

Adventurer
I like JasonZZ's suggestion. One of my own would be to have a 9th level spell, called Any-spell. It has the spell copying effects of wish and nothing else. Honestly, have a slot to cast any 8th level and lower spell in existence as a 9th level spell once per day is worthy of the slot in and of itself.

You also have Wish, which can be prepared and cast, but doing so more than once per year makes your truename (going back to the OP) known in some way, like an imprint on the fabric of reality. This would explain why the powerful creatures like Asmodeus only cast it once per year. They can cast it more than once, but they choose not to because they don't want their truename to be invoked.

Of course, as has always been the case of wish, this is more DM territory. The above is how I would play it.
 

I think of Wish as an incredibly powerful ritual, with all of the plusses and minuses you'd expect. This would give it a long time and a high component cost (not XP though please)... you wouldn't use it in combat, and due to the expense, you only use it for (and you get) something really powerful. If you're trying to make a 25,000 gp item, you're probably doing it wrong :)

Using it against an opponent is basically a long-distance curse. That's where you would need a true name (and I'd say the same thing for any other long-term screwing effect like dominating something for a long time). The victim can still save. A Wish used in this way could curse someone into sterility (a big deal if they're a king).

I'm not a fan of "cosmic fireworks" only because they put a stress on the DM and on the campaign. The DM has to have encounters (or higher-level monsters) ready, then has to drop them at some inconvenient time, ticking off all the PCs except maybe the wizard. And then give XP if the PCs win?
 
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jrowland

First Post
It seems a bit of an oversight, but If you used Wish to cast say Flame Strike, I think it should be as a 9th level spell. Itt doesn't mention this, and its probably assumed, but I could also see some DMs saying, "Dude, you get to cast Flame Strike, period, no higher slot version". So a clarification would be good.
 

bbjore

First Post
Using it against an opponent is basically a long-distance curse. That's where you would need a true name (and I'd say the same thing for any other long-term screwing effect like dominating something for a long time). The victim can still save. A Wish used in this way could curse someone into sterility (a big deal if they're a king).

This is one of the better uses of wish I've heard of in a long time. It makes wish not about a simple grab for more wealth or a generic desire to be awesome. It really speaks to the true desire of a character. If they hate another individual so much that they're willing to cast such an epic spell just to bring their foe equally epic misery, it says a lot about motivation.

In this case, wish really becomes about fulfilling a wish, and less about metagame steps to help your PC become more awesome, or just make it easier to accomplish what you want.

I think there's a lot to be said for splitting wish up into an "anyspell" spell, a fabrication type spell, and an actual Wish spell, for something a PC would actually wish for. What if the limiter was that wish would only work once for any individual when cast by the same person? I think if each PC only got one or two wishes throughout the entire campaign, the nature of what they wished for would change substantially.

Wishing for gold or a single magic item would be rare, and unhindered by a lot of balance concerns, wishes could be more powerful and special. They'd be things like, "I wish that BBEG that's been pissing us off for the last 20 levels no longer had a face" (a wish one of my PCs would readily make), "I wish so and so's children, children's children, and so on, all die horrible and violent deaths until there is none of his line walk the earth" or "I wish my friend who has been banished to hell is free..." Those are wishes worthy of the name.

For Wish is to be a Wish, it needs to be suitably epic, and I think giving each PC only a single wish would go a long way towards ensuring that it is only used for worthy requests. And if it isn't? Well then, that's a valuable lesson to all involved, and very true to the storytelling trope wish has held since it first found its way into humanity's stories. Imagine a young or inexperienced player having a PC finally learn wish, and then frivolously spending it on something like unimaginable wealth. Three levels later their PC has been murdered by their second in command, they're a lemure in Baator, and the other players at the table are all laughing and saying, "I bet you "wish" you still had your wish left so you could use it as a bargaining chip to convince one of us to wish you back." That's storytelling gold.

On the other hand, I have a PC, who if he spent his wish to make sure his immortal and eternal foe no longer had a face (and hence no mouth to speak his lies). If that PC ended up as a lemure in Baator without a remaining wish. That lemure would grin and think, "wish well spent."
 

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