Racism in your game?

[haakon1]

[MENTION=25619]haakon1[/MENTION], just to be clear, my post was not a comment on your first post explaining Cauldron. I was just making a general comment.

Racism like the Cauldron plantations can work great in a game. But in the games I have experienced, racism happens in the background unless a PC happens to be of a particular race. Dwarves don't like elves? No problem until the party stops by a dwarven outpost for supplies. Now the elf needs to use an intermediary because the fletcher won't sell to a poncy elf. Which can be great, once or twice. What I've seen happen is every dwarf the party comes across treats the elf character like crap and there never seems to be a justification.

Having regional groups subjugate other regional groups seems like a great way to have this work in a game. Like you said, it challenges the moral characters. But, has this come up in your games? This seems like it could derail a game if certain characters feel they need to free the slaves.

Thanks for clarifying.

To me, the main problem with what you describe -- an "all dwarves hates elves and refuse to deal with them" setting is that it's stupid and boring (repetitive). If MOST dwarves didn't like elves, and some were like you describe, while others are tolerant and others trying to exploit the situation (selling to elves at inflated prices in secret rendezvous the dwarf guild doesn't know about), it might be interesting. Or still annoying.

Thanks for asking about my campaign. The truth is, this is a campaign that meets infrequently, and we're on hiatus for two of the players having babies (unrelated babies, same time almost!). They came to Cauldron in this campaign from a gate from the "Forge of Fury" adventure.

I had the duergar actively operating the Forge with the slaves kidnapped from Cauldron. (The official set up for the first adventure in the Shackled City Adventure Path, "Life's Bazaar" is that someone is kidnapping people from Cauldron, and it turns out to be a half-duergar who is selling them as slaves into the Underdark.)

The duergar are refugees who were driven from their Underdark homes by the Kingdom of the Ghouls. After the PC's slaughtered them in the Forge of Fury and barely defeated them in the Malachite Fortress (abandoned dwarven fortress/Underdark entrance under Cauldron, connected to the Forge by a gate), the surviving duergar leader tried to make a deal with the PC's to give up their slaves if the PC's would let them go. The PC's LG cleric was interested (worried about this Ghoul threat of which they spoke!), but the PC's CN rogue would have none of it, and started a fight, which the PC's won.

Eventually, the PC's defeated the duergar and their allies, and freed all the kidnapping victims who were still alive and not sold off to Drow, etc., before the PC's arrived.

One of the kidnapping victims freed is a newly joining player's PC. He got really into the setting. His character, a Fighter, was a Cauldron City Guard. He was fired for being an alcoholic (cured by cold turkey as a prisoner) and punching the head of the Guard for insulting his father, the former head of the Guard. Dad was killed in the line of duty, when he tried to negotiate an end to a slave revolt on a plantation owned by the nouveau riche parents of a rival NPC, in a party of rival NPC's.

Sounds like it'll be "interesting", but we haven't played since they finally made it into the City, and went to the Temple of St. Cuthbert (who were trying to rescue the kidnapping victims).

Next session, I'll do roleplaying fun -- the Flood Festival and a ball where they can meet the bigwigs, invited as special guests for being heroes and reopening the economically important gate. Then they'll have to rush off to rescue a cleric outside the city . . . so after fun antebellum carefree life at a temperate altitude, they go into the steaming jungle and see a little of where all that wealth comes from.

BTW, my mom's side of the family is from Charleston, SC, where the Civil War started . . . I think I'm pulling in ideas from visiting historical plantations as a kid. Definitely made an impression, and not just for being hot.

 

[haakon1]

I don't mind fantasy races being mean to each other. For me, it's representations of things that my players might actually be which is the issue. Orcs hating dwarves is fine. Hating homosexuals? Or black people? Not fine. Too close to reality.

That seems reasonable to me. Anything too close to the player's lives would need to be player initiated, I think. I've never seen anyone who really wanted to do something close to their personal real life, though.

 

[haakon1]

historically the elves live in the forests on the slopes of a mountain range. The dwarves live under the mountains. They need lots of charcoal to burn to smelt the iron ore they mine; they use the wood from the forest. Instant conflict, instant reason for long-term racial tensions between elves and dwarves.

Heh, charcoal for dwarven forges was a theme in my Bissel campaign, when I ran "The Standing Stones" adventure.

But it was causing enmity between human forest dwellers -- who make charcoal and raise food for the dwarven miners -- and grugach (wild elves). The "regular" elves don't have a problem with the humans and dwarves doing their things, to a reasonable extent.

The adventure hook was the Bissel government not getting war supplies from the dwarves, and asking the PC's to investigate. The dwarves aren't shipping because their suppliers in the village of Ossington aren't sending them food and charcoal, so they need help. They blame the grugach, who are blockading the village. But of course, during the adventure, the PC's discover why, which isn't about racials or environmental issues at all.

I don't remember how much of that I made up (probably most of it?) versus adventure as written.

 

[Elf Witch]

It depends on the campaign world. In my homebrew dwarves and gnomes don't get along. The dwarves enslaved the gnomes for centuries and bad feelings are still there. In our Kalamar game it id fairly common for humans from Brandobia to not like elves because they have been at war with them. The humans from the Kalamar empire often view humans from other countries as not being as good as them.


So sometimes players will encounter NPCs who don't like them but it is usually not all the time.

I have used sexism in some cultures. But there is always ways around it and the whole world is not that way. I always use my best judgement on making sure it just adds some flavor without making anyone uncomfortable or taking the fun out of the game.

 

[Fetfreak]

Well my friends and I were brought up in a racist free environment and my group is also religion free. In our town there like 90% of caucasians and there are no negative experiences with other people. So in our game there is racism and nationalism especially between the countries with bad history. There are also many racial and religious prejudges since it's a human dominated world and a medieval human (even in a fantasy) shouldn't be enlightened, smart and friendly. All of this mostly creates role-play opportunities that we all love at my table.

 

[Electric Wizard]

One of the reasons adventuring parties are great is because they are forced into situations where they appreciate the need for diversity. The dwarf and elf, who aren't supposed to get along, respect each other because the elf can sneak and use magic and the dwarf can cut through the enemies without flinching. Both are necessary for survival.

Usually racism (species against species) only comes up in games that I DM if it provides a good adventure hook or some characterization. In one campaign, the characters helped prove a halfling family's innocence when a noble was burglarized. Later, they knew something was awry with the woman who claimed to be a priestess of a benevolent deity refused to share a fire with a dwarf.

I don't like universal species relationships, either. In one city, kobolds are allowed to dwell in peace in the sewers of a human city as long as they take care of the vermin and oozes. Halfling nomads often clash with humans in areas of scarcity. Along a frontier, tribes of humans and orcs trade and mingle as much as they raid and plunder. I try to keep in mind what's practical and realistic rather than always relying on fantasy stereotypes.

 

[Derren]

One of the reasons adventuring parties are great is because they are forced into situations where they appreciate the need for diversity. The dwarf and elf, who aren't supposed to get along, respect each other because the elf can sneak and use magic and the dwarf can cut through the enemies without flinching. Both are necessary for survival.

Neither of those things are inherent to those races. There is no in game reasons why adventurers would automatically be less racist than the cultures they have grown up in.

 

[Electric Wizard]

[MENTION=2518]Derren[/MENTION]

Yeah I know I was just using that example to illustrate how I see adventuring parties breaking down racial barriers. Like Legolas and Gimli quarreling until they have to face Moria, and then becoming inseparable war buddies.

 

[Derren]

[MENTION=2518]Derren[/MENTION]

Yeah I know I was just using that example to illustrate how I see adventuring parties breaking down racial barriers. Like Legolas and Gimli quarreling until they have to face Moria, and then becoming inseparable war buddies.

Yes, but such adventuring parties are not really racist in the first place as they let other races into the party.

 

[TMRose]

For me it depends one the game and how its played.
For example I was playing in a pulp era game set in the 30's so we had things like the Nazi running around as bad guys. And how can you have Nazi in either a pulp or Super Hero game and not have them be racist.
And as for religious tolerance , in Fantasy games you have religions that Sacrifice Virgins, summon Demons, and raise Undead. Should there not be a little religious intolerance toward those types?
Should freedom of Religion and Religious tolerance extend to a Cultist trying to summon Cthulhu?
I think its up to the people playing the game. If something make the [layers or GM uncomfortable then it should not be in the game.. But if everyone is comfortable then I see no problem.