The Great D&D Schism: The End of an age and the scattering of gamers

[pemerton]

With Runequest at least it's often a matter of nomenclature. Battle Magic, Spirit Magic, Common Magic and Folk Magic; all the same thing, called by different names in different editions. Bladesharp 2 does the same thing in every case (+10% to weapon skill and +2 damage for the curious). There are systems which have changed, Sorcery is the largest example, but it''s rarely in a particularly fundamental way.

That's all true, but what I was thinking is that you could take a RQ character into a Stormbringer game and it would be playable - the basic logic of a PC sheet - percential skills broken down across basically the same categories - is common across all those Chaosium games.

Taking out whole races and classes is a big move.

But I don't think they have a very big impact on compatability. An AD&D Assassin ported into a 2nd ed AD&D game will play basically the same as it did in the edition it was ported from. An AD&D thief ported into a 2nd ed AD&D game will play exactly the same, just with less than fully optimised skill percentages.

Likewise half-orcs.

After all, people were bringing new races and classes, or variant races and classes, into their AD&D games all the time, and that didn't change the edition they were playing. Did it?

 

[Zardnaar]

You could also port monsters from AD&D to BECMI and vice versa with few issues. Classes not so much as AD&D ones were more powerful.

 

[pemerton]

You could also port monsters from AD&D to BECMI and vice versa with few issues.

Thouls for the win!

 

[Zardnaar]

Thouls for the win!

These ol things?

Medium Humanoid
Initiative+2 SensesPerception +6; darkvision
HD 3d10+3
HP 18
AC 14
Saves Fortitude +7 Reflex +8 Will +5
Speed 30'
Att 2claws +4 damage 1d3+paralysis (DC12)
SQ:fake appearance paralysis, regenerate 1/hp per round
Alignment LawfulEvil Languages Common, Goblin
Skills Perception+6 Stealth +6
Str13 Dex15 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 11


Traits
Fake appearance:A Thoul looks like a Hobgoblin. A DC 12 perception/wisdom check reveals its slightly rubbery skin and long ghoul like tongue.


Regenerate:A Thoul Regenerates 1/hp per round.

 

[Bluenose]

That's all true, but what I was thinking is that you could take a RQ character into a Stormbringer game and it would be playable - the basic logic of a PC sheet - percential skills broken down across basically the same categories - is common across all those Chaosium games.

There might be the odd place where someone would go, "Wait, what?" Mostly to do with the magic systems, probably. Certainly though the various iterations of the D100/BRP/Chaosium system are very similar. There's rarely a need to change much if you're converting a creature/character from one game to another, whether it originates in Runequest, Elric, Hawkmoon, Call of Cthulhu, or Ringworld. Or from edition to edition, generally. I've used Apple Lane from 2e with RQ6, and everything that needed changing I could do as it came up. I might even include Pendragon in that, despite not being percentile, since it's not hard to add/divide scores by five to convert abilities.

 

[Storminator]

You could also port monsters from AD&D to BECMI and vice versa with few issues. Classes not so much as AD&D ones were more powerful.

We did plenty of BEMCI adventures with our 1e games, without even thinking about converting. It took us a good long while to realize they were even different versions.

PS

 

[Bedrockgames]

Likewise half-orcs.

After all, people were bringing new races and classes, or variant races and classes, into their AD&D games all the time, and that didn't change the edition they were playing. Did it?

Yes, but that doesn't make it less of a new edition. It was clearly a new edition of the game, i would argue a bigger leap than the one from 3.0 to 3.5 (which was barely perceptible if you didn't know what to look for). 2E was designed specifically with backwards compatibility in mind, which i think was a great choice, because it enabled us to use the 1E back catalog of modules and setting material with easy. That is why they went with THAC0 instead of doing ascending AC (my inderstanding is something like this had been discussed during its development, but possible that is incorrect). With 2E there were still large, noticeable differences. Just try reading the 2E dmg and the 1E dmg back to back. They are hugely differen, in a way that would seriously impact campaign style and prominent features of the game like dungeon exploration. And while they are compatible, one relis on attack matrices for attack rolls, while the other uses thac0. I just dont think one can look at the 1-2e transition and 3-3.5 transition and say they were comparable.

 

[S'mon]

When I was on Active Duty in the Army, I would meet fellow soldiers who wanted to game, but every time there was that cautious "whose side are you on" question when they would ask which edition you played

The mind boggles...

"Whose side are you on?"

"Al Qaeda."

"Yes, but are you 3e Al Qaeda, or 4e Al Qaeda?"

 

[Ahnehnois]

2E was designed specifically with backwards compatibility in mind

What a novel idea!

 

[billd91]

2E was designed specifically with backwards compatibility in mind, which i think was a great choice, because it enabled us to use the 1E back catalog of modules and setting material with easy. That is why they went with THAC0 instead of doing ascending AC (my inderstanding is something like this had been discussed during its development, but possible that is incorrect).

I think even more to the point, according to some of the design editorials at the time, 2e was at least partly envisioned as a compilation and clean up of the 1e rules, which had picked up a variety of accretions from various follow-up books. The 2e books enabled groups to incorporate weapon specialization and non-weapon proficiencies with one set of core books rather than the PH, Unearthed Arcana, Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, and Wilderness Survival Guide. Plus, they got off the attack matrices, cleaned up initiative and surprise rules, and got specialty clerics. Not a bad deal, overall.

So I don't think of backward compatibility was as much an explicit goal as much as the main core of the rules weren't really up for transformation.