D&D 5E How many (ancient) dragons would it take to destroy a (dwarven) city?

[KarinsDad]

Why would you assume that a big metropolis like this one does not know about them?

How many people actually survive an encounter with a Dragon?

I would think that information about them would be few and far between other than obvious stuff that one could tell from a very great distance.

In fact, that should be the status quo for most monsters. They are MONSTERS!!! Who the heck gets close enough to them to live and tell the tale? Sure, an occasional NPC adventurer might do so, but it's not like most campaigns have the printing press invented and their complete and accurate stories go far and wide. Most stories should be embellished and changed enough over the decades and centuries until everyone thinks that Dragons are gods that can walk through walls and move the Moon and all kinds of nonsensical stuff. The actual abilities of Dragons (and other monsters), if they are ever found out, should often be watered down or built up, and distorted by inaccurate information.

The fact that many people think that it's plausible for every nation and its brother (and PCs) to know exact specific information about monsters and that information is readily available to its citizens seems a bit far fetched as a general idea. Information just doesn't move that way (even on the Internet, it is often distorted, let alone a low technology society).

Some sages might have a bit more specific and accurate information, but most societies (like the dwarves) should often find out the hard way. IMO.


As a DM, I often hand out inaccurate information from NPCs to PCs because most NPCs just wouldn't know, would make stuff up, would hear inaccurate stuff from others. Even knowledge checks should not always be 100% accurate information.

 

[Tzarevitch]

lol. I remember there was a thread about this a long time ago. Unless the city is prepared for attack and/or loaded with surplus adventurers of comparable level, it really only takes one dragon. Either come in at night or out of the sun in the daylight. A city that small won't have a lot of defenders. If the dragon destroys the barracks before most of the troops get out it's over. The remaining troops will either be at scattered locations in the city to keep the peace, on leave, or spread out in small pockets on the walls (if there are any).

 

[Dausuul]

lol. I remember there was a thread about this a long time ago. Unless the city is prepared for attack and/or loaded with surplus adventurers of comparable level, it really only takes one dragon. Either come in at night or out of the sun in the daylight. A city that small won't have a lot of defenders. If the dragon destroys the barracks before most of the troops get out it's over. The remaining troops will either be at scattered locations in the city to keep the peace, on leave, or spread out in small pockets on the walls (if there are any).

Underground city. Makes it a good bit tougher for the dragon. It can't just dive in out of nowhere and bomb the barracks. To carry out a frontal assault, it has to land, smash the gates, and then work its way in, which gives the defenders time to react. That's why so much of this discussion comes down to siege, treachery, or disguise.

KarinsDad makes a good point about knowledge of dragons, though. Knowledge on both sides is a big factor. How much do dwarves know about dragons? How much does the dragon know about the dwarf-city's defenses? (I also overlooked the fact that Beleriphon was using both dragons in the disguised-peasant strategy--if the guards look outside and see an ancient blue dragon dive-bombing farmhouses, they're probably not going to be too concerned about the peasants fleeing for safety when the dragon is right there in plain view. The possibility that there might be a second ancient dragon... that's what we call a black swan scenario.)

 

[Nachti]

Smaug did it alone

 

[Elderbrain]

At least three. After all, this this supposed to be the greatest Dwarven city in the world, so its warriors should be the cream of the crop and fight like mad. Let the Dwarves put up one hell of a fight - the stuff of legends -and take out two of the Dragons before finally succumbing to the third. If you like, the Ancient Red could be pregnant, thus allowing her to give birth to additional allies after winning the conflict. Let the Dwarves ALMOST win...

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Nah the Dragon can easily do this alone. The city would not have been built to combat Dragons. Most of the 50000 would be non combatants that would run right off the bat. Most of the soldiers would be easily killed or run in fear and the ones that are elite would still be nothing special to the dragon and would probably agree that running would be a better idea.

 

[steeldragons]

So..just an exercise here with my "classed individuals/npcs in settlements" calculations...

50,000 population. 10,000 military (1 in 5 dwarves a soldier? Yeah, that sounds pretty right) of 0 lvl.
1 classed person per 100 gives us 500 classed dwarves in the city.
1/2 are level 1: 250
Lvl 2: 125
Lvl 3: 62 (.5)
Lvl 4: 31
Lvl 5: 15 (.5)
Lvl 6: 7 (.5)
Lvl 7: 3 (.5)
Lvl 8: 1 (.5)
Lvl 9: 1 (from 2 .5's)
Lvl 10: 1 (from 2 more .5's. leaving us with a .5 leftover.)

Yeah...these guys aren't taking out an ancient dragon. The top generals and high priests are probably taking up most of the top levels...maybe a couple of rare dwarven wizards. At least a few of the level 7's+ stand a good chance of getting out alive. >

 

[Shadowdweller00]

The real answer here is that there are no answers. Both dwarves AND dragons have exactly the power of narrative and neither more nor less. In one game, dwarves eat iron for breakfast while in another a couple goblins run circles around them. Heck in one PLACE in one game dwarves may be warriors so badass they make demons run and cry while dwarves elsewhere may spend all their time cowering under mine carts. A dragon may be likewise be terrifyingly genre-savvy or suicidally megalomaniacal. And the best way to design a world history for your game is to ask yourself - what do you want to accomplish? If you want the PCs to face down a solitary super-villain who is probably still around centuries later then single dragon is the way to go. If you want the PCs to explore forgotten works of dwarven genius from the dragon wars or to interact with societies years later who bear a deep-seated grudge against dragons in general then maybe a team approach is better.

For my personal pound of verisimilitude - I don't see dragons (most especially chromatics) working well together in my game worlds. They're kind of the ultimate prima donnas. I see them maybe commanding armies of creatures they think can intimidate/suborn. One possible siege approach - dragon is smart enough not to try taking on the entire dwarven army at once INSIDE their underground fortress and so tries to break apart the foundations of dwarven society instead. The dragon chooses a well-protected temporary lair somewhere reasonably nearby the dwarven city and takes to raiding supply caravans. The goal - destroy trade, ruin crops, sow fear, generally restrict food supplies and make the population miserable. THEN when dwarven refugees start leaving (at least temporarily) for greener pastures the "recruitment" phase begins - the dragon tries to capture refugees with families. The dragon wants dwarves that he/or she can coerce into attacking their fellow citizens. "If you ever want to see your mother/father/daughter/son/loved one again, then bring me back say...three heads." Send them back as assassins and watch the ensuing bloodbath until the city is sufficiently weak to take down, perhaps with the aid of an assault by some conquered orc/goblin/kobold/human tribe.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

These invasion stories always seem juicier with a betrayal element to them. Dragons are clever, rich, and long-lived. Dwarves are stubborn and greedy. There must be a way for a clever polymorphed dragon to take advantage of those things. Maybe they obtain a pass code to disable (some of) the golems or even turn them against the dwarves. Maybe there are rumors floating around as to who might have given up or sold that information.

 

[Derren]

How many people actually survive an encounter with a Dragon?

With good dragons quite a lot.

I would think that information about them would be few and far between other than obvious stuff that one could tell from a very great distance.

What is the DC for monster knowledge about dragons? And how many of those 50.000 dwarfs will make that DC, especially the higher level ones who rule the city/military? And that even assumes that the red dragon can shapechange as this is normally is quality of metallic dragons only and the preview did not show reds having that ability.

And again about the combat power of dragons, a single iron golem could kill the ancient dragon if the dwarfs manage to trap the dragon in a tunnel with it. So much for the power of ancient dragons.