D&D 3E/3.5 [3E/C&C] What level would you make this spell? Destruction of the Prepared Mind

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So, I'm reading the great "Lords of Quarmall" Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser story and in it, there's a high level spell that specifically targets high level spellcasters.

That got me to thinking: What about a spell that caused one point of damage per level of spell prepared by a wizard? Assuming cantrips do no damage, a typical level 1 wizard (in 3E, at least) would suffer one point of damage, a level 10 wizard would take 43 points of damage and level 20 wizard would take 180 points of damage -- more, if they had high intelligence and could prepare additional spells per day.

Unless it was split into least, lesser, regular and greater versions, each with caps on damage, this is a spell that arguably scales way too well, even given its highly specific target. To make it limit the save-or-die aspect of it, it should probably have a Will save, which wizards are most likely to succeed. Still, even at half damage, more than 90 points of damage for a level 20 wizard (who would almost certainly have higher intelligence, just to be able to cast those higher level spells) is nothing to sneeze at.

On one hand, this is almost way too good, on the other, it's so atmospheric -- in the story, a high level wizard uses a targeted spell to kill off other wizards out of, I think, a general hatred for other wizards -- that I want to make it work.

Maybe it needs an expensive component, like a specially prepared gem, which is destroyed in the casting.

Any thoughts?

 

[Dandu]

Offhand, might want to playtest it at 6th level and make adjustments from there. It might deal lots of damage on a failed save, but so does Disintegrate.

 

[Greenfield]

For higher level spell casters, the material cost ends up being trivial. The D&D economy is broken that way. It's a non-limit.

For the 20th level caster, even the after-the-save damage of 90 will most likely prove fatal, so a damage cap is definitely in order.

Here's an idea: Caster isn't immune to the spell, and the spell has an extended casting time with a max damage per round. Let casting time be defined as Concentration, meaning it can be interrupted by some outside event, or voluntarily by the caster.

The caster can prepare whatever bonuses he/she can arrange for their Save, but can never be immune. This limits the total damage to the caster's hit points. In essence, when the caster passes out, the spell ends. Caster can terminate the casting before that point, of course.

As for the spell level, area (it should center on the caster) etc., I'll leave that for someone else.

<edit>Cute idea just came to mind: Casters can protect themselves during the spell effect by dismissing prepared spells. This way it can be used to force Wizards to disarm themselves in order to survive. Makes it less "End of the world" and gives it broader use. </edit>

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Offhand, might want to playtest it at 6th level and make adjustments from there. It might deal lots of damage on a failed save, but so does Disintegrate.

Good starting point, thanks. Given that it can only be used on wizards, rather than Joe Public, I could see knocking it down a level from there to 5, since it's no good when the wizard's ettin bodyguard tries to lay you out before you're in range of your fellow spellcaster.

And I'm thinking I need to look through the 1E DMG's magical properties of gems table to pick a suitable component for this, and use that as a starting point for the visual effects of the spell (maybe a vision of jagged shards of that gem appearing to explode out of the spellcaster's head for a moment).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Here's an idea: Caster isn't immune to the spell, and the spell has an extended casting time with a max damage per round. Let casting time be defined as Concentration, meaning it can be interrupted by some outside event, or voluntarily by the caster.

The caster can prepare whatever bonuses he/she can arrange for their Save, but can never be immune. This limits the total damage to the caster's hit points. In essence, when the caster passes out, the spell ends. Caster can terminate the casting before that point, of course.

Hmm, if both the caster and the victim have to save each round, it still advantages the caster, who knows it's coming and can try and set it up by weakening his target's Will save in some fashion, but that definitely keeps it from just being cast willy-nilly every time some wizard offends another wizard with an obnoxious scholarly opinion or whatever. (It also fits in with the short story that inspired this, as the Grey Mouser is worried he'll be subject to the spell himself when he casts it.) I like that.

 

[Dandu]

For the 20th level caster, even the after-the-save damage of 90 will most likely prove fatal, so a damage cap is definitely in order.

I would heavily dispute this. Assuming an initial Con score of 12 and a +6 item, a standard wizard will have 4+80+19x2.5 = 131.5-ish hp.

 

[Greenfield]

Presuming the item, yes it's survivable. Without it his native hit points will average 51.5, far short of the 90 needed to survive.

Even with the item, it's a Save or Die spell for him.

 

[Dandu]

A spellcaster who doesn't invest in Con is pretty much asking to be killed with a blasting spell anyways, if not Flesh to X.

If you think this is too close to a 'save and die' spell, we could do away with half damage on a save.

 

[N'raac]

I assume we're moving to an "inspired by" spell, as anything this effective is too high level for the Mouser (a talented apprentice) to cast anyway.

It's been a long time since I read the stories, but I seem to recall the spell acted pretty slowly (maybe I am misrecalling). Maybe the damage should be a small fraction of the total each round, or each turn. Maybe it's based on the target's spellcaster level, or even his INT, but that takes away the possible "dismiss your spells to slow the damage" effect.

"It does damage" seems pretty limited. Perhaps it should have other effects. I'm reminded of the Nightmare spell, 5th level. Small amounts of damage every day, but the target is fatigued and unable to regain arcane spells. This spell is both more versatile (target need not be sleeping; probably acts faster) and less versatile (arcane casters only), as well as being slower to kill the target. But it is a "death from afar" spell, which needs to act slowly to create a race to save the victim. I don't think "only wizards" should lower the spell level. It's not a spell you carry every day, but one hauled out for the appropriate target.

Nightmare also gives us a possible mechanic limiting the spell, being saves that vary with knowledge of the target. To Greenfield's point on material components, riffing from the Nightmare spell, perhaps you need that lock of hair, fingernail clipping, etc. for the spell to work on any given target. Now we have an adventure hook instead of a cash cost.

Overall, I don't like "ZAP - save or take huge damage" for this spell. The source suggested a slow wasting, not a huge, immediate damage hit .

The more I think on it, the more I think I have departed from the source material. But does the game really need a "make a will save or your wizard is done" spell? Why not just Feeblemind him - same net effect and all casters are affected, arcane ones with a save penalty. Wow, 5th level spells are unkind to arcane casters...

 

[Greenfield]

Actually, the story mentioned a Scroll provided to the Mouser. It was supposed to injure/kill Wizards that were less than the "First Order", meaning top rank. That's why Mouser was concerned, since he wasn't.

He apparently had a spell mishap in scroll use, because it targeted, and killed, the 1st order Wizards and left the enemy's lower order Wizards unharmed. Mouser mistakenly concluded that he must in fact be a Wizard of the 1st order, since he survived.

But the damage was immediate and extremely fatal.

So we're trying to replicate a spell failure from a book. The original was supposed to exclude a specific level of casters, and the mishap was to affect only that level.

Question: What will it do to the "unprepared mind", such as Sorcerers, Bards and other spontaneous casters?

If they're immune then the spell is broken.

In practice, if we went with the extended time ritual I suggested, or even the immediate kaboom, there's an easy way for the caster to render himself immune: Prepare only the Destruction of the Prepared Mind spell. Do that and the caster can take, at most, one point of damage.

These are huge holes in the mechanic, and may render the spell far too broken to allow in play, other than as a bad-guy's secret weapon.

At that point it's more of a plot-device than an actual spell, and can behave any way the DM needs it to.