We all prioritize things as we need to. But your lack of time for the game is not WotC denying you choice.
D&D 5E Settings played in D&D: cause or effect?
We all prioritize things as we need to. But your lack of time for the game is not WotC denying you choice.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
No, their lack of putting out settings is. It's not as if they won't make money. Sorry, but if they only give me one choice, then that's the only choice I have from them. You don't get to blame me for that lack of choice.
You should start a thread in the home brew section of the board with a list of things you need conversions for. You could probably get the fan base to do the conversions for you (maybe not all but probably a good deal of them) or point you to stuff that has already been done.
Sure, I'm overstated!
But there is indeed a lot of discussion, however all of the people, who take the surveys here are still a tiny fragment of all the 5E players and DMs.For clarity's sake: I absolutely don't think they doing this to piss off the fans. Actualy, I like the current DnD staff regarding their writing and interwievs and stuff. Also like the books so far, however I'm not too interested in the first two APs. I think they doing this because they have resources for this and they want to play safe. That is okay. But I think there would be possibilities to do it better, without much risk. I don't necessarily want big, full-color books, currently I'm doing well enough with 3E Ravenloft and with stuff from the Fraternity (big thanks Jester and staff!). Although I think some officialy proofed support would be extremely nice. 3rd parties and/or fan-tendering can do that, if Wizards can't or don't want.
I just hope they don't plan keeping the IP-s close, but don't do anything with them for a long time. That would be sad.
Remathilis
Legend
WotC is in a Catch-22, setting wise.
Lets look at WotC's stable for a moment. If we focus on the big-draws, we have Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, DragonLance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Eberron. They're the ones with the largest fanbases and most draw, and every one of them was printed in at least two editions or more. Now, let's do some analysis on them...
Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are, for lack of a better term, big default dumping grounds where everything in D&D ends up living. There are certainly some differences in tone (high fantasy vs sword and sorcery) and completeness (fully detailed vs. lightly sketched) but in the end of the day, there is little GH offers over FR in terms of being "generic fantasy" other than those two elements and a handful of famous names and adventures (ToH, Vecna, etc) and FR has the advantage of pre-made synergy (its got book lines and video games) and lastly, for reasons uncontrollable to WotC, its creator (Greenwood) is alive and on good terms with WotC; Gary has sadly left us and had washed his hands of GH years ago.
Eberron is fairly kitchen-sink, but its Kitchen-Sink with a Twist. It's a better alternative to FR in terms of fantasy, because it offers a slightly more nontraditional view of fantasy, and its not one that invalidates the PHB or MM in doing so. Moreso then GH, there is a clear separation of style from FR, and its ideas on magi-tech are innovative. However, for Eberron to work you need to buy into the Twist (the magic-tech world) and if you don't it leaves you with little else.
Dragonlance is probably a better novel line than setting. The problem is it demands significant changes from the "default" world (no orcs, no halflings, no lycanthropes) and doesn't offer much back that can't be replicated elsewhere. As Tyranny of Dragons showed, you don't need Krynn to make a sweeping dragon-war epic, so the world ends up falling into a "same, but different" area where its close enough to generic to not stand out, too far away from generic to run without additional materials. I don't know how you solve this problem.
Dark Sun has the benefit of having recently seen a revival in 4e, and its very far removed from the generic. That said, its very "love it or hate it" as a world and requires some major rule additions to work. I don't know if the call for "S&S survivalist power fantasy" is that big these days.
Ravenloft, for all my love, is another setting that the best of it (haunted adventures, Strahd and his Castle, and horror) doesn't need its own setting, especially one so spliced together as the RL campaign world is. Like Dragonlance, its best parts can be mined out safely.
Planescape was only ever tangentially a setting. The Planes have been a part of D&D since the beginning, and Sigil has seen reprint in nearly every editions in some format. All later planar material was missing was the cant and factions and those are both very "loved or hated". So again, you can safely extract the best from it (such as its races and Sigil itself) without needing the full setting again.
Now, if I'm WotC and I see this, I see that Realms is probably the safest bet; its generic, doesn't upset the core, and has brand synergy baked in. Eberron is the next best because while it has a Twist, it doesn't need extensive work to get in moving and it can still host a variety of adventures and such. Dark Sun is on the fence; unless there is a giant demand for it, I don't see it selling well. Greyhawk the same, it doesn't offer much that can't be done elsewhere. Dragonlance, Ravenloft, and Planescape can be mined for ideas and stuff, but I don't see any of them being giant enough sellers to warrant the investment.
Takeaway: If the goal is to sell 50-100,000 copies, few of those settings are going to cut it. Definitely Realms, probably Eberron, maybe Dark Sun. The rest can be covered in other ways: a generic horror supplement or Castle Ravenloft AP will sell more copies than a Ravenloft Campaign Setting; a Planar AP or Planar Adventures book will do better than a Planescape book; a new Tomb/Giants/EE AP is a safer bet than another Greyhawk book, etc. In that regard, I can't fault them for picking ToD over a new Dragonlance book or putting the EE in the Realms rather than GH. Simply put, they can't make enough money supporting more than 2-3 settings at most, but they can make more money if those "settings" are boiled down and their best is used generically.
Lets look at WotC's stable for a moment. If we focus on the big-draws, we have Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, DragonLance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Eberron. They're the ones with the largest fanbases and most draw, and every one of them was printed in at least two editions or more. Now, let's do some analysis on them...
Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are, for lack of a better term, big default dumping grounds where everything in D&D ends up living. There are certainly some differences in tone (high fantasy vs sword and sorcery) and completeness (fully detailed vs. lightly sketched) but in the end of the day, there is little GH offers over FR in terms of being "generic fantasy" other than those two elements and a handful of famous names and adventures (ToH, Vecna, etc) and FR has the advantage of pre-made synergy (its got book lines and video games) and lastly, for reasons uncontrollable to WotC, its creator (Greenwood) is alive and on good terms with WotC; Gary has sadly left us and had washed his hands of GH years ago.
Eberron is fairly kitchen-sink, but its Kitchen-Sink with a Twist. It's a better alternative to FR in terms of fantasy, because it offers a slightly more nontraditional view of fantasy, and its not one that invalidates the PHB or MM in doing so. Moreso then GH, there is a clear separation of style from FR, and its ideas on magi-tech are innovative. However, for Eberron to work you need to buy into the Twist (the magic-tech world) and if you don't it leaves you with little else.
Dragonlance is probably a better novel line than setting. The problem is it demands significant changes from the "default" world (no orcs, no halflings, no lycanthropes) and doesn't offer much back that can't be replicated elsewhere. As Tyranny of Dragons showed, you don't need Krynn to make a sweeping dragon-war epic, so the world ends up falling into a "same, but different" area where its close enough to generic to not stand out, too far away from generic to run without additional materials. I don't know how you solve this problem.
Dark Sun has the benefit of having recently seen a revival in 4e, and its very far removed from the generic. That said, its very "love it or hate it" as a world and requires some major rule additions to work. I don't know if the call for "S&S survivalist power fantasy" is that big these days.
Ravenloft, for all my love, is another setting that the best of it (haunted adventures, Strahd and his Castle, and horror) doesn't need its own setting, especially one so spliced together as the RL campaign world is. Like Dragonlance, its best parts can be mined out safely.
Planescape was only ever tangentially a setting. The Planes have been a part of D&D since the beginning, and Sigil has seen reprint in nearly every editions in some format. All later planar material was missing was the cant and factions and those are both very "loved or hated". So again, you can safely extract the best from it (such as its races and Sigil itself) without needing the full setting again.
Now, if I'm WotC and I see this, I see that Realms is probably the safest bet; its generic, doesn't upset the core, and has brand synergy baked in. Eberron is the next best because while it has a Twist, it doesn't need extensive work to get in moving and it can still host a variety of adventures and such. Dark Sun is on the fence; unless there is a giant demand for it, I don't see it selling well. Greyhawk the same, it doesn't offer much that can't be done elsewhere. Dragonlance, Ravenloft, and Planescape can be mined for ideas and stuff, but I don't see any of them being giant enough sellers to warrant the investment.
Takeaway: If the goal is to sell 50-100,000 copies, few of those settings are going to cut it. Definitely Realms, probably Eberron, maybe Dark Sun. The rest can be covered in other ways: a generic horror supplement or Castle Ravenloft AP will sell more copies than a Ravenloft Campaign Setting; a Planar AP or Planar Adventures book will do better than a Planescape book; a new Tomb/Giants/EE AP is a safer bet than another Greyhawk book, etc. In that regard, I can't fault them for picking ToD over a new Dragonlance book or putting the EE in the Realms rather than GH. Simply put, they can't make enough money supporting more than 2-3 settings at most, but they can make more money if those "settings" are boiled down and their best is used generically.
I just don't see the evidence for this assertion.
WotC is a money-making enterprise. And it has chosen not to publish a wide range of setting material - a change of approach from what the company was doing during the 4e period.
What makes you think that WotC is deliberately choosing not to make money? It seems to me far more likely that, given their knowledge of sales during the 4e period, they have worked out that publishing setting material (other than what they are publishing) won't make money.
[MENTION=7635]Remathilis[/MENTION]'s breakdown seems pretty comprehensive to me.
I remember reading something in the past few years suggesting that Planescape doesn't sell that well, despite having a very loyal fanbase. Since 3E's MotP it's seemed pretty clear that PS is going to be incorporated into planar material (this was also the case in 4e) rather than presented as its own thing.
And having just recently been reading the original Ravenloft campaign book, it's clearly a vibe ("Gothic Horror") plus a set of mechanics ("the mists"; Fear and Horror checks, which are in the 5e DMG already; and changes to magic, including corruption mechanics) plus what is really a set of vignettes/mini-campaigns rather than a full and integrated world.
Eberron I can't comment on, but Dragonlance I think is more likely to recur as an adventure (it's original incarnation) than as a campaign setting. But given that the original Dragonlance modules are on DnD Classics, and given that conversion from AD&D to 5e stats is pretty straightforward (the Conversion Guide suggests just using the AD&D stats except with tweaks to AC, attack bonus and saves), it seems even more likely that WotC will just make modest revenues from the sale of those PDFs.
Given that WotC has so much already-written material that it can sell as PDFs without having to make additional production expenditure, I think the focus is likely to be on new material (including adventures) rather than rewriting existing setting material that is already for sale.
I remember reading something in the past few years suggesting that Planescape doesn't sell that well, despite having a very loyal fanbase. Since 3E's MotP it's seemed pretty clear that PS is going to be incorporated into planar material (this was also the case in 4e) rather than presented as its own thing.
And having just recently been reading the original Ravenloft campaign book, it's clearly a vibe ("Gothic Horror") plus a set of mechanics ("the mists"; Fear and Horror checks, which are in the 5e DMG already; and changes to magic, including corruption mechanics) plus what is really a set of vignettes/mini-campaigns rather than a full and integrated world.
Eberron I can't comment on, but Dragonlance I think is more likely to recur as an adventure (it's original incarnation) than as a campaign setting. But given that the original Dragonlance modules are on DnD Classics, and given that conversion from AD&D to 5e stats is pretty straightforward (the Conversion Guide suggests just using the AD&D stats except with tweaks to AC, attack bonus and saves), it seems even more likely that WotC will just make modest revenues from the sale of those PDFs.
Given that WotC has so much already-written material that it can sell as PDFs without having to make additional production expenditure, I think the focus is likely to be on new material (including adventures) rather than rewriting existing setting material that is already for sale.
I am interested in what you need converted. I may do some of it for you if I get in the mood.
Remathilis
Legend
Thanks.
Really, Planescape was an attempt to take the traditionally high-level playground of the planes and bring it down to low-level characters. It did a good job by fleshing out Sigil and the Outlands and by using portals to avoid the need for high-level spells. All of that can be done now in a new Planar Book or AP. All that would be missing in the Cant and Factions, and TSR was phasing them out come the end of the PS line anyway. All that would be needed is a few races (bariaur, gith(zerai/yanki), and perhaps rogue modron) and a brief write-up on factions; all stuff you could cram in a Player's Guide or Appendix.
Yeah. As much as it pains me to say, Ravenloft as a world was always a tricky setup. Domains of Dread and the 3e Arthaus stuff tried really hard to make work like a world, but most people probably remember it as a "trapped in a domain or two for a couple adventures" sidequest. Really, as much as I'd love to see a return of half-Vistani and native PCs, WotC would probably do just as well to make a Generic Gothic Horror book or AP with the few extra rules (like corruption and magical changes) and return to the "night of terror" model it had for most of its life.
Eberron is a unique challenge; unlike say DS or RL, its not one theme (S&S or horror) but a couple of ideas kinda smashed into a generic world. You have the magi-punk element (warforged, artificers, lightning rails), the unique races (shifters, changlings), the pulp elements (Xen'drik), the noir elements, all snuggled in with the D&D tropes either played straight (paladins, monks, and half-orcs) or tossed on its ear (dino-riding halflings, death-cult elves, savage world drow). Unlike DL, PS, or RL, its harder to mine all the good elements out of it and sell them separately, you're probably better off selling it as a package (and knowing it won't match FR's sales).
Dragonlance is an odd one. I'll admit I have no dog in this fight: I've never seen the allure of it. Its strengths (dragons, knighthoods, wizard orders, sweeping epic fantasy) aren't unique to just DL, and it too full of strange "different just because" stuff (like kender replacing halflings, even ignoring for a moment how reviled kender are) that it seems like it would be a lot of work for fairly little gain. At most, I could see more dragon-themed adventures or some sort of web supplement.
The only thing I wish WotC would do is convert a lot of the "necessary player crunch" for these worlds somewhere. Most of the fluff is usable, but the mentioned settings need conversions of important elements (kender, warforged, powers checks, artificers, muls, gladiators, factions, etc) to allow for the maximum experience. I keep hoping for some "Guide to the Multiverse" which give an overview of the popular settings and needed crunch to bridge from the PHB. The rest could be handled via Classic PDFs.
Um, no. Those homebrewers are chock full (about 50%) of people who freely filch from published settings, they just don't see the need to stick to one exclusively. That's exactly what they're data says. So, no, "all those homebrewers" are NOT people who "won't buy FR". You're making crap up.
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