D&D 5E Warlock and Repelling Blast

[Celtavian]

And yet, we've been explicitly told that it does in fact have enough duration that the warlock can choose targets after seeing the effects of previous blasts.

So there we have it. It isn't that fast. It's been answered. "Instantaneous" does not mean what you think it means, according to Crawford.

So Crawford has decided the word instantaneous doesn't mean what it means in a dictionary.

Well, this is why older editions decided what they decided about ray and beam spells. They wanted to keep the meaning of instantaneous consistent. I wish Mike Mearls would overrule Crawford on this one. It's all kinds of stupid. What we do we know so far about this instantaneous eldritch blast and scorching ray spell. Let's look at all the ridiculous destruction of verisimilitude:
1. You have time in a chaotic battle to discern the effect of the beam on the target and then fire again at the same target if you don't get the desired effect. You can do this every beam or ray you fire.

2 Yet you don't have time to move between beams even a few steps.

3. The spell has an "Instantaneous" duration, so an opponent can't dispel your spell, even though he should be able to given you are taking time to aim and fire a beam, choose your target, and aim and fire a beam again.

4. You get to knock the target back 10 feet per beam, see where the target is each beam, and fire again for up to 4 beams.

So the spell isn't really instantaneous. That's why making you choose targets beforehand and making it simultaneous was always the wiser way to write those types of spells. Crawford apparently did not take that lesson to heart in this new edition.

 

[seebs]

Lots of game terms don't have their dictionary meanings, that's pretty normal. I don't see anything inherently busted with the rulings, but I also note that we've never seen any response from sage advice about questions like whether you can do other things between beams, etc.

 

[dmnqwk]

I think it's time to acknowledge when the game's creator has invented such a broken spell (each beam of an instant spell can choose targets afterwards, is able to add ability modifier to each beam, can knock someone back 40' etc) it's time to simply remove the spell from the game and give Warlocks a Force Bolt (fire bolt with force damage!) that hits once.

Unless the intention is Warlocks are only balanced if they can deal 1d10+5 four times as a cantrip that knocks a creature back 40' because they have nothing better to do on their turn.

 

[spectacle]

I think it's time to acknowledge when the game's creator has invented such a broken spell (each beam of an instant spell can choose targets afterwards, is able to add ability modifier to each beam, can knock someone back 40' etc) it's time to simply remove the spell from the game and give Warlocks a Force Bolt (fire bolt with force damage!) that hits once.

Unless the intention is Warlocks are only balanced if they can deal 1d10+5 four times as a cantrip that knocks a creature back 40' because they have nothing better to do on their turn.

What is broken? A Battlemaster can do the same thing with a bow. It's time to acknowledge that Elldritch Blast is fine the way it is, regardless of this ridiculous debate about the meaning of the word "instant" and the finer timing of magic.

 

[Ovinomancer]

What is broken? A Battlemaster can do the same thing with a bow. It's time to acknowledge that Elldritch Blast is fine the way it is, regardless of this ridiculous debate about the meaning of the word "instant" and the finer timing of magic.

Huh, you think the BM using his very limited pool of superiority dice to push things around is functionally the same as an at-will ability? OK, we're going to have to agree to disagree there.

 

[Mephista]

Battlemaster gets other tricks on top of his bow shooting, which is more effective than a mere push, especially at levels below 17 (I favor the one that inflicts fear). Having both Repelling and Agonizing blast IS a rather steep investment for a warlock at levels 2-11, which is where most games take place. Combine with magic bows/arrows, and things become interesting fast.

Eldritch Blast with Hex, Agonizing, and Repelling isn't that much better than Fighter with a bow. There's strong arguments that they're roughly on par when all is said and done. It is absolutely intentional that Warlocks are only balanced if they can deal 1d10+5 x 4 and knock back 40' on an attack at level 17. Its what they do. Warlocks have more in common with a paladin and ranger than they do with a wizard (I say the same of bard, despite full progression as well). The only difference is that their "bow" is magic instead of wood. Or should we take away all swords and bows from our half-caster population?

 

[Noctem]

I think it's really the part where it's "This is done at level 17" that should be putting things into focus. I think some posters are ignoring this fact.

 

[Mephista]

No to mention the assumption that all four of eldritch blasts are hitting the monsters you're facing at these levels. I think its a bit of a stretch, myself, even if we assume Foresight is up. I've personally not played to this level, but I can't say that I'm that worried about it. In my experience, magic items make a huge difference, so I don't expect a maximized eldritch blast to ever beat out a Fighter with any weapon here. Even at the legendary levels.

 

[Zorku]

Which means that Crawford disagrees with Crawford!

Specifically, he wrote the rule that 'instantaneous' spells "can't be dispelled because the magic exists only for an instant", and now he Tweets (or seems to) that 'instantaneous' does last long enough that it can be dispelled by a readied action!

Of course, this may be mere confusion that arises from only being allowed 140 characters with which to frame an argument...!

Wow, this is still going. Ok, I guess I'll stick my nose in it again.

The definition of "instant" is "less than 1 round. You can't dispel anything with a duration of less than 6 seconds. The magic converts itself into mutilated/burnt/frozen flesh or w/e before you've had a chance to focus on it. Any number of other declarations that make this no longer weird game mechanics that don't map well to reality to you. Can we be done with this particular example yet?

 

[Arial Black]

Wow, this is still going. Ok, I guess I'll stick my nose in it again.

The definition of "instant" is "less than 1 round. You can't dispel anything with a duration of less than 6 seconds. The magic converts itself into mutilated/burnt/frozen flesh or w/e before you've had a chance to focus on it. Any number of other declarations that make this no longer weird game mechanics that don't map well to reality to you. Can we be done with this particular example yet?

Several problems here.

First, nowhere in the book (or in any dictionary!) is 'instant' defined as either 'less than one round' or 'less than six seconds'. You just made that up.

Next, a Readied action certainly can occur during someone else's action, so if 'instantaneous' lasts for an entire action then your readied dispel can certainly be triggered by seeing the first beam, and that dispel would occur before the second beam was shot, rendering claims that 'the entire instantaneous spell must be resolved before anyone has a chance to focus on any part of it' as demonstrably untrue.

As soon as the warlock himself contemplates the results of the first beam before shooting the next, this creates that window that allows the dispeller to do his readied dispel.