D&D 5E Test of High Level 5E: Design 4 or 5 lvl 13 PCs for 6 to 8 encounter adventuring day
Flamestrike
Legend
Despite being a fascinating example of metagame issues and the social contract of DnD, this experiment seems to have failed in its base objectives.
So I will proceed by simply plonking down the encounters as designed, and we can discuss them as a group.
Adventure Synopsis
In short: The PCs are hired to undo a catastrophic magical accident that has unleashed a godly nihilistic force into the realm.
Adventure Background: A band of NPC adventurers recently entered white plume mountain to recover three (stolen) magical weapons – Wave, Whelm and Blackrazor. After battling though the devious traps of the mad arch mage Keraptis, they located the greatsword blackrazor and placed it into a recently acquired bag of holding for safekeeping. Little did our intrepid heroes know however, but the bag of holding wasn’t actually a bag of holding – it was instead a bag of devouring – an extra dimensional space holding a being of entropy of great power.
As if that wasn’t bad enough, blackrazor isn’t really a greatsword either. It is in fact an extra dimensional space of its own, a rift in reality shaped like a sword that holds prisoner the greatest atropal (an undead creature of immense power) that is capable of snuffing out the entire multiverse.
When the two extra dimensional spaces came into contact with each other, the resulting shockwave released the atropal (whose first action was ironically devouring the creature in the bag of devouring) and opened a rift in space/ time neatly destroying White Plume Mountain (and much of the countryside) in the process. The atropal (which still refers to itself as ‘blackrazor’ is still trapped in the dimensional rift; but its power grows daily. If allowed to grow stronger, it will break free completely, enlarging the rift in the process, and bring about the end of the multiverse - with all of reality doomed to fall into the event horizon of the dimensional tear.
Enter the PCs.
The realms Wizard has (via divination magic) found out that something bad has happened and the mountain is in ruin (possibly a volcanic eruption) and there is now a strange vortex in its place. He fears that whatever destroyed the mountain has freed the atropal in Blackrazor. If this is the case, there isn’t much time remaining before the atropal escapes from the vortex… he estimates around 5 Hours to be precise.
He gives the PCs the co-ordinates to a teleportation circle near White Plume Mountain (and warns the PCs that it’s the lair of a dracolich… which he is pretty sure has moved on. Pretty sure…) and sends them on their way.
The PCs must then fight or negotiate with the inhabitants of the dracoliches lair, undertake the 2 hour journey to the (now smoking crater) that once was white plume mountain, and enter the dimensional rift. From there, they face a number of challenges including rampaging constructs, horrible aberrations and fiends, a githyanki war party looking for a sword of their own, and even the mad Wizard Keraptis himself before finally confronting Blackrazor in his lair.
So I will proceed by simply plonking down the encounters as designed, and we can discuss them as a group.
Adventure Synopsis
In short: The PCs are hired to undo a catastrophic magical accident that has unleashed a godly nihilistic force into the realm.
Adventure Background: A band of NPC adventurers recently entered white plume mountain to recover three (stolen) magical weapons – Wave, Whelm and Blackrazor. After battling though the devious traps of the mad arch mage Keraptis, they located the greatsword blackrazor and placed it into a recently acquired bag of holding for safekeeping. Little did our intrepid heroes know however, but the bag of holding wasn’t actually a bag of holding – it was instead a bag of devouring – an extra dimensional space holding a being of entropy of great power.
As if that wasn’t bad enough, blackrazor isn’t really a greatsword either. It is in fact an extra dimensional space of its own, a rift in reality shaped like a sword that holds prisoner the greatest atropal (an undead creature of immense power) that is capable of snuffing out the entire multiverse.
When the two extra dimensional spaces came into contact with each other, the resulting shockwave released the atropal (whose first action was ironically devouring the creature in the bag of devouring) and opened a rift in space/ time neatly destroying White Plume Mountain (and much of the countryside) in the process. The atropal (which still refers to itself as ‘blackrazor’ is still trapped in the dimensional rift; but its power grows daily. If allowed to grow stronger, it will break free completely, enlarging the rift in the process, and bring about the end of the multiverse - with all of reality doomed to fall into the event horizon of the dimensional tear.
Enter the PCs.
The realms Wizard has (via divination magic) found out that something bad has happened and the mountain is in ruin (possibly a volcanic eruption) and there is now a strange vortex in its place. He fears that whatever destroyed the mountain has freed the atropal in Blackrazor. If this is the case, there isn’t much time remaining before the atropal escapes from the vortex… he estimates around 5 Hours to be precise.
He gives the PCs the co-ordinates to a teleportation circle near White Plume Mountain (and warns the PCs that it’s the lair of a dracolich… which he is pretty sure has moved on. Pretty sure…) and sends them on their way.
The PCs must then fight or negotiate with the inhabitants of the dracoliches lair, undertake the 2 hour journey to the (now smoking crater) that once was white plume mountain, and enter the dimensional rift. From there, they face a number of challenges including rampaging constructs, horrible aberrations and fiends, a githyanki war party looking for a sword of their own, and even the mad Wizard Keraptis himself before finally confronting Blackrazor in his lair.
BoldItalic
First Post
(edit - I took so long typing this post that I hadn't seen Flamestrike's post just above)
I entirely agree that it would have been better if two or three (or even five) like-minded players had got together to test the original proposition. That would have been much more sensible.
There is another point that I think we've missed, and it's only occurred to me now, after sleeping on things. I'll try to phrase this tactfully. It's that the goals of the adventure don't match the goals of (some of) the players.
We have a situation where we are testing a one-off set of characters against a one-off adventure; it's not part of a campaign. That's pretty normal. The game is designed for that. No problem.
But in that context, XP and levels are no use to the players, because no matter how many or how few XP we get (or even if the DM is not intending to award them at all), we aren't going to use these characters again. The goal of the adventure is to save the world in four hours, even if all the characters die doing it. The adventure goals are not "stay alive and level up".
We have a player who's personal goals are "stay alive and level up" - he's said so early on, his group play to gain levels - and that's a perfectly valid way to play the game. His characters and his play style are strongly optimized to achieve that and he's very good at it. But in the context of this test, they are optimized for the wrong thing. They are not optimized for "save the world at any cost", they are optimized for killing monsters and getting XP. So there is a mis-match.
We've already hit the mismatch in the first round of the first encounter. In the context of saving the world, there's no need to kill the giants. They are just getting in the way of leaving the cave and if we can leave the cave without spending resources to kill them, that's optimal play in this context. But it's not optimal play if your goal is to maximize your XP and work towards level up. Hence the difficulty. A player whose personal goals don't match the scenario goals gets unhappy.
As I see it, there are two ways to patch this up. We either change the story goals or we change the player goals. I think we could do either but we can't carry on with the test if we don't. Because even if we get over the personal issues and reach the end of the adventure, it won't have proved anything.
Without rewriting any of the encounters (I'm guessing, here, because I haven't seen them), we could change the adventure goals to "get as much XP as you can, and at least reach 14th level" by, for example, backtracking to the intro and having Myrkyn doubting the competence of the PCs and setting them a challenge couched in those terms. "There are some giants occupying the teleport gate. Bring me the heads of the giants, and we'll talk." That would work. It would match the goals of this encounter to the personal goals of the player who has optimized his characters for slaughtering giants (and wolves) efficiently.
Or we could change the player goals. We can certainly do that by changing the players, which is what seems to be happening right now, but it does mean that the test as originally intended gets abandoned and replaced by something else.
If you want to preserve the original intention of the thread, you need to change the story goals to be couched in terms of killing monsters and find a few more players who enjoy optimizing for XP and levels. Then it's a fair test of the encounter guidelines in the context of that style of play.
I think we just found out the hard way.
I entirely agree that it would have been better if two or three (or even five) like-minded players had got together to test the original proposition. That would have been much more sensible.
There is another point that I think we've missed, and it's only occurred to me now, after sleeping on things. I'll try to phrase this tactfully. It's that the goals of the adventure don't match the goals of (some of) the players.
We have a situation where we are testing a one-off set of characters against a one-off adventure; it's not part of a campaign. That's pretty normal. The game is designed for that. No problem.
But in that context, XP and levels are no use to the players, because no matter how many or how few XP we get (or even if the DM is not intending to award them at all), we aren't going to use these characters again. The goal of the adventure is to save the world in four hours, even if all the characters die doing it. The adventure goals are not "stay alive and level up".
We have a player who's personal goals are "stay alive and level up" - he's said so early on, his group play to gain levels - and that's a perfectly valid way to play the game. His characters and his play style are strongly optimized to achieve that and he's very good at it. But in the context of this test, they are optimized for the wrong thing. They are not optimized for "save the world at any cost", they are optimized for killing monsters and getting XP. So there is a mis-match.
We've already hit the mismatch in the first round of the first encounter. In the context of saving the world, there's no need to kill the giants. They are just getting in the way of leaving the cave and if we can leave the cave without spending resources to kill them, that's optimal play in this context. But it's not optimal play if your goal is to maximize your XP and work towards level up. Hence the difficulty. A player whose personal goals don't match the scenario goals gets unhappy.
As I see it, there are two ways to patch this up. We either change the story goals or we change the player goals. I think we could do either but we can't carry on with the test if we don't. Because even if we get over the personal issues and reach the end of the adventure, it won't have proved anything.
Without rewriting any of the encounters (I'm guessing, here, because I haven't seen them), we could change the adventure goals to "get as much XP as you can, and at least reach 14th level" by, for example, backtracking to the intro and having Myrkyn doubting the competence of the PCs and setting them a challenge couched in those terms. "There are some giants occupying the teleport gate. Bring me the heads of the giants, and we'll talk." That would work. It would match the goals of this encounter to the personal goals of the player who has optimized his characters for slaughtering giants (and wolves) efficiently.
Or we could change the player goals. We can certainly do that by changing the players, which is what seems to be happening right now, but it does mean that the test as originally intended gets abandoned and replaced by something else.
If you want to preserve the original intention of the thread, you need to change the story goals to be couched in terms of killing monsters and find a few more players who enjoy optimizing for XP and levels. Then it's a fair test of the encounter guidelines in the context of that style of play.
I think we just found out the hard way.
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Flamestrike
Legend
Encounter 1:
Use large cavern map: 80' by 40'. The main chamber has a large gaping hole in the roof, about 80’ up that leads outside, which lets in considerable natural light. PC’s appear in south eastern side in a teleportation circle. The main room is otherwise empty aside from some rubble in the western section of the chamber. The whole lair has been thoroughly looted, but a PC who spends time searching this chamber finds a scroll of telekinesis in a scroll case that was left behind under the rubble (Perception DC 18). Award advantage to any PC specifically searching the rubble.
The dracolichs lair has been long abandoned by Dragotha and is currently inhabited by a hunting party of 2 Frost Giants and 4 Winter wolves that have taken shelter from the devastation outside. The winter wolves den in the south eastern side of the chamber where the PCs arrive. When the PC’s arrive the giants are to the NW quietly debating what to do next. They are spooked by the caverns and the recent goings on in the area (and by the fact they are in a dracolichs lair), and are alert when the PCs arrive. Any PC who speaks giant can make out what is being said (they are currently debating if the dracolich is going to return or not, and are extremely hungry, they are very concerned with what happened to white plume mountain outside).
If the giants or the wolves are alerted, they instantly attack (they are on edge). The wolves always seek to catch as many PCs in cold breath attacks, and then attempt to gang up on a single PC at a time if possible. Gorbarth (see below) directs his companion to engage any obvious enemy spell casters or dwarves (in giant). On subsequent turns he then directs the wolves to assist him fighting his target (they understand giant).
One of the Giants (Gorbarth) is noticeably bigger than his companion (add +2 to his Str and Con score, and increase his HP to 150). He carries a family heirloom frost giant sized axe called Frostreaver (magical Greataxe that requires attunement and deals an extra 1d12 cold damage on a successful hit) that looks as if it’s been carved out of a single piece of jagged ice. Increase his CR by 1 to reflect these changes.
Gorbarth is the leader of this warparty and while he has no interest in parlay initially (he’s hungry and sees the PCs as food) he’s spooked and wary by the recent events in the area. Any PC that speaks giant can break off hostilities and attempt to negotiate with him as an action (Persuasion DC 15 to let them pass; under no circumstances will he join the PCs on an expedition). He can also be intimidated to back down and let the PCs pass (DC 15 charisma intimidation, adjust the DC according to circumstances of the battle and the apparent strength of the PCs). Any PC that bluffs the giants by representing to be working for Dragotha as part of this negotiation or intimidation gets advantage on this check (Gorbarth is terrified of the dracolich) as do any PCs that offer the giant sufficient food for him and his warband. He automatically stands down and lets the PCs pass if his companion is killed and he is reduced to less than 50 HP.
Adjusted XP difficulty = MEDIUM (the winter wolves have a CR of 10 less than the PCs, so do not count in the XP multiplier for encounter difficulty).
Treasure: The Giants carry 250gp each and Gorbarth wears a family ring valued at 500gp. The axe is likely too big for the PCs to use. It would be worth up to 10,000gp to a collector. It is huge (15’ long) and weighs 250lbs.
DM Notes: This encounter is designed to drain resources from the party, and should require the party to consider a short rest at its conclusion, although smart/ social/ face type PCs could be able to negotiate with the giants and conserve party resources appropriately. The party should have 4 hours and 45ish minutes to complete this quest at the conclusion of the encounter. It is a 2 hour journey to WPM from this cave, leaving the party with anywhere from 2-4 short rests (depending on how swiftly they can manage to travel the 2 hours to the next encounter location, possibly expending more resources to do so).
Notes: I'll leave this open for discussion for some time and then move onto encounter 2.
Use large cavern map: 80' by 40'. The main chamber has a large gaping hole in the roof, about 80’ up that leads outside, which lets in considerable natural light. PC’s appear in south eastern side in a teleportation circle. The main room is otherwise empty aside from some rubble in the western section of the chamber. The whole lair has been thoroughly looted, but a PC who spends time searching this chamber finds a scroll of telekinesis in a scroll case that was left behind under the rubble (Perception DC 18). Award advantage to any PC specifically searching the rubble.
The dracolichs lair has been long abandoned by Dragotha and is currently inhabited by a hunting party of 2 Frost Giants and 4 Winter wolves that have taken shelter from the devastation outside. The winter wolves den in the south eastern side of the chamber where the PCs arrive. When the PC’s arrive the giants are to the NW quietly debating what to do next. They are spooked by the caverns and the recent goings on in the area (and by the fact they are in a dracolichs lair), and are alert when the PCs arrive. Any PC who speaks giant can make out what is being said (they are currently debating if the dracolich is going to return or not, and are extremely hungry, they are very concerned with what happened to white plume mountain outside).
If the giants or the wolves are alerted, they instantly attack (they are on edge). The wolves always seek to catch as many PCs in cold breath attacks, and then attempt to gang up on a single PC at a time if possible. Gorbarth (see below) directs his companion to engage any obvious enemy spell casters or dwarves (in giant). On subsequent turns he then directs the wolves to assist him fighting his target (they understand giant).
One of the Giants (Gorbarth) is noticeably bigger than his companion (add +2 to his Str and Con score, and increase his HP to 150). He carries a family heirloom frost giant sized axe called Frostreaver (magical Greataxe that requires attunement and deals an extra 1d12 cold damage on a successful hit) that looks as if it’s been carved out of a single piece of jagged ice. Increase his CR by 1 to reflect these changes.
Gorbarth is the leader of this warparty and while he has no interest in parlay initially (he’s hungry and sees the PCs as food) he’s spooked and wary by the recent events in the area. Any PC that speaks giant can break off hostilities and attempt to negotiate with him as an action (Persuasion DC 15 to let them pass; under no circumstances will he join the PCs on an expedition). He can also be intimidated to back down and let the PCs pass (DC 15 charisma intimidation, adjust the DC according to circumstances of the battle and the apparent strength of the PCs). Any PC that bluffs the giants by representing to be working for Dragotha as part of this negotiation or intimidation gets advantage on this check (Gorbarth is terrified of the dracolich) as do any PCs that offer the giant sufficient food for him and his warband. He automatically stands down and lets the PCs pass if his companion is killed and he is reduced to less than 50 HP.
Adjusted XP difficulty = MEDIUM (the winter wolves have a CR of 10 less than the PCs, so do not count in the XP multiplier for encounter difficulty).
Treasure: The Giants carry 250gp each and Gorbarth wears a family ring valued at 500gp. The axe is likely too big for the PCs to use. It would be worth up to 10,000gp to a collector. It is huge (15’ long) and weighs 250lbs.
DM Notes: This encounter is designed to drain resources from the party, and should require the party to consider a short rest at its conclusion, although smart/ social/ face type PCs could be able to negotiate with the giants and conserve party resources appropriately. The party should have 4 hours and 45ish minutes to complete this quest at the conclusion of the encounter. It is a 2 hour journey to WPM from this cave, leaving the party with anywhere from 2-4 short rests (depending on how swiftly they can manage to travel the 2 hours to the next encounter location, possibly expending more resources to do so).
Notes: I'll leave this open for discussion for some time and then move onto encounter 2.
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Flamestrike
Legend
As noted above, after the PCs kill or subdue the giants, they face a 2 hour journey to the Mountain (or whats left of it).
Smart PCs should attempt to shorten this journey by any means possible in order to allow more short rest opportunities in the Demi planar rift upon arrival.
As the PCs journey to the mountain, they can immediately see it is no more. The sky over the mountains remains is dark as if something is sucking the light out of the sky. The party passes flattened trees on the way to the mountain; knocked flat as if by a giant explosion, only facing towards the mountain - as if some massive implosion has drawn them towards the scene of the carnage.
Upon reaching the mountain, the PCs quickly find the dimensional rift that houses the Atropal. It appears as an inky black swirling vortex that seems to draw matter and light into its central core. Appropriate diviniation magic, arcana or investigation checks identify it as a planar rift, and that it leads to a demi plane of sorts. Sufficiently high arcana checks identify that the plane to which it leads to is a 'plane between the planes' with no connection to the ethereal plane once iside (although astral travel is possible from the demi plane). The PCs may also be able to determine what created it (the interaction of a bag of devouring with an equally powerful dimensional space holding an equally potent extra planar being) with appropriate checks or magic (DMs call).
Any PC that enters the plane cannot leave unless via the astral plane, or via plane shift, or if the Atropal is slain. As the demiplane is a different plane, any familiars that are sent in to scout the plane cannot report back to the PCs (although once the PCs are in the plane, the familiars can scout as normal).
The interior of the plane appears as a dungeon of sorts with 10' wide passages and floors, ceilings and walls are made of some kind of virtually indestructible black stone that seems to absorb light and sound (a form of dark matter). The entire demiplane is shrouded by a magical dim light (treat as a 9th level spell) that even darkvision cannot pierce. Creatures without darkvision cannot see more than 30’ in the darkness, and creatures with darkvision can see up to the range of their darkvision (60’ or 120’) however even then the PCs vision is shrouded in darkness (advantage to stealth checks to hide). Devils sight works normally.
For the purposes of this experiment, the dungeon itself is not mapped, the individual encounter areas are.
I'll post subsequent encounters every 24 hours or so, leaving us all with time to discuss the encounters as they take place.
Smart PCs should attempt to shorten this journey by any means possible in order to allow more short rest opportunities in the Demi planar rift upon arrival.
As the PCs journey to the mountain, they can immediately see it is no more. The sky over the mountains remains is dark as if something is sucking the light out of the sky. The party passes flattened trees on the way to the mountain; knocked flat as if by a giant explosion, only facing towards the mountain - as if some massive implosion has drawn them towards the scene of the carnage.
Upon reaching the mountain, the PCs quickly find the dimensional rift that houses the Atropal. It appears as an inky black swirling vortex that seems to draw matter and light into its central core. Appropriate diviniation magic, arcana or investigation checks identify it as a planar rift, and that it leads to a demi plane of sorts. Sufficiently high arcana checks identify that the plane to which it leads to is a 'plane between the planes' with no connection to the ethereal plane once iside (although astral travel is possible from the demi plane). The PCs may also be able to determine what created it (the interaction of a bag of devouring with an equally powerful dimensional space holding an equally potent extra planar being) with appropriate checks or magic (DMs call).
Any PC that enters the plane cannot leave unless via the astral plane, or via plane shift, or if the Atropal is slain. As the demiplane is a different plane, any familiars that are sent in to scout the plane cannot report back to the PCs (although once the PCs are in the plane, the familiars can scout as normal).
The interior of the plane appears as a dungeon of sorts with 10' wide passages and floors, ceilings and walls are made of some kind of virtually indestructible black stone that seems to absorb light and sound (a form of dark matter). The entire demiplane is shrouded by a magical dim light (treat as a 9th level spell) that even darkvision cannot pierce. Creatures without darkvision cannot see more than 30’ in the darkness, and creatures with darkvision can see up to the range of their darkvision (60’ or 120’) however even then the PCs vision is shrouded in darkness (advantage to stealth checks to hide). Devils sight works normally.
For the purposes of this experiment, the dungeon itself is not mapped, the individual encounter areas are.
I'll post subsequent encounters every 24 hours or so, leaving us all with time to discuss the encounters as they take place.
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I've only run one wizard so far. One other member that also enjoys casters has run a few. He's testing a bladesginer paladin. It is a surprisingly potent combination. Biggest weakness is low hit points. AC is really high and can do quite a bit of damage smiting.
As far as staples of a wizard spell list:
cantrips: chill touch: Extremely powerful for a cantrip. Shuts down healing of any kind. Regeneration, heal spells, whatever. Shuts them down for a turn.
shocking grasp: If some enemy has powerful reaction abilities, take them away.
1st: shield: Obvious quality defensive spell that uses a reaction.
sleep: No save unconscious. Get a creature low enough, you can set up a crit. Let some power melee class maximize a smite or spell hit.
2nd: misty step: Escape spells are always useful.
flaming sphere: Another crowd control spell that can help you narrow attack avenues.
3rd: fly: Not always needed, but is really needed when it is.
fireball: Good quality AoE for clearing things like winter wolves or lower CR creatures.
hypnotic pattern: Crowd control that doesn't give a save every round.
counterspell: Another situational spell that can be very good.
4th: banishment: Lots of creatures have weak Charisma saves. Can completely eliminate fiends if save is missed. Can banish things like frost giants.
polymorph: This spell operates on a few levels. It's best in pure brute fights that don't require complex strategies, which is most fights. It reduces the mental stats, so you have to be prepared for a PC a lot like an attack dog. It allows a PC to do solid offense and provides a huge hit point buffer which preserves PC hit points putting less pressure on healing and resting. 5E polymorph is a great spell. You do have to do a little research if your DM is a stickle to observe a giant ape or T-rex. Two of the best choices.
5th: wall of force: No save crowd control against creatures that can't teleport or aren't too large.
6th: disintegrate: Make sure you have a way to get your group out of a forcecage or wall of force.
9th: foresight: Extremely powerful long lasting buff. Only downside of all 9th level spells is anyone with dispel magic or counterspell can defeat them with a lucky roll. You only get one, so it's done.
Not many people enjoy playing pure casters. Casters have been heavily neutered in 5E. I thought differently at first. Now that I've seen the mechanics in action, arcane casters are just ok against the environment. The biggest problem is how useless arcane casters are against Legendary Creatures that can auto-save. It does no good to have a nifty lvl 8 or 9 spell if it isn't going to work in the most important combat. Not sure why the designers chose to neuter arcane magic to the extent they did, but it has put a huge damper on playing arcane casters. You can have fun, but you won't be a power class in the most important fights. You'll be support unless there are lots of small, weak things to kill.
A spell I had good fun with was animate objects. I had a bunch of small metal darts made in packs of 10. I would use animate objects to turn them into vicious attackers while casting spells. Not so great against things with magical resistance, but fun and can do a lot of damage in the right circumstances.
I had fun playing a gnome wizard. He was extremely helpful in a support role quite often and was able to clear some rooms quickly. But he was nearly useless in Legendary Creature fights and that isn't fun.
Radaceus
Adventurer
[MENTION=6788736]Flamestrike[/MENTION] And this for 5, 13th level PCs, what was the magic item limits again?
I think I may run this with the level 14 characters I used for a one shot against a demi-lich, since my players are semi familiar with them, adjust them to level 13 of course
Fire Genasi Evoker
Human Battlemaster
Wood Elf Cleric of Mystra (Arcane)
Mountain Dwarf Paladin of Gorm (Oath of the Crown)
Forest Gnome Arcane Trickster
no MC
I'd say they are probably not up to maximum optimal specs, but the players playing them have been at this for 30+ years, and I'd like to test that aspect...+'s versus player ingenuity
I think I may run this with the level 14 characters I used for a one shot against a demi-lich, since my players are semi familiar with them, adjust them to level 13 of course
Fire Genasi Evoker
Human Battlemaster
Wood Elf Cleric of Mystra (Arcane)
Mountain Dwarf Paladin of Gorm (Oath of the Crown)
Forest Gnome Arcane Trickster
no MC
I'd say they are probably not up to maximum optimal specs, but the players playing them have been at this for 30+ years, and I'd like to test that aspect...+'s versus player ingenuity
Radaceus
Adventurer
I love this spell, especially as a DM and using Glyph of Warding(Spell Glyph) at a 5th level spell slot
Flamestrike
Legend
The party had access to all official splat (no UA) point buy and average HP as per PHB.
Magic items were ad hoc, but most PCs had a rare/ very rare magic item, a minor item or two, and all carried 2 potions of greater healing.
The encounters are all built using the guidelines in the DMG, and are all [medium-hard] encounters (even the BBEG). There are seven in total.
You could run it as is for 14th level PCs. The xp budget for them isnt too different. One encounter may come out as 'easy' and maybe a hard encounter might be reduced to medium, but the adventure is an (overall) difficult one due to time constraints and pacing.
My suggestion would be inserting an 8th encounter for 14th level PCs (a riddle/ trap would be good). Something that drains a few resources and makes the players think.
The encounters as written include social challenges in addition to stand up fights (or encounters that allow social minded PCs to overcome them without fighting) and there are limited environmental and exploration challenges (shorten the journey time to the mountain, investigate the dungeon, deal with its unique environment) so a 'stop and think' riddle type encounter would be appropriate.
Azurewraith
Explorer
I will knock up a party of 5 and give it a go. Better yet my group meets up tomorrow night(first time in a month yay) I may roll up some pre-Gens and see if they want to give it a go(disclaimer they are a 6man).
Can't help but think knowing the dcs of stuff and just having the option listed will influence my descion.
Either way I will try it to the best I can. I'm in the boat that even a half optimized party will break the system may even get the wife to run the monsters.
Shouldn't we move to the other thread?
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