D&D 5E How is the Giant Badger CR1/4?

[jaelis]

Who cares? It's a 1/4CR creature. After first level is a DM going to throw a pack of 20 feral giant badgers at you?

Only if the DM is awesome!

 

[Dausuul]

The Monster Manual CRs are usually a notch or two higher than they should be according to the DMG.

That said, if we evaluate the giant badger on those guidelines:

HP 13 --> defensive CR 1/8
Damage output 10 --> offensive CR 1
AC 10 --> reduce defensive CR one level to 0
Attack bonus +3 --> no change to offensive CR

So according to the DMG, the giant badger would have CR 1/2, at least by my math.

 

[jeffh]

Who cares? It's a 1/4CR creature. After first level is a DM going to throw a pack of 20 feral giant badgers at you?

There's an actual published TSR adventure that throws 75 gibberlings at you at one point...

 

[Dualazi]

I think you'll find that many creatures in the MM have CRs that don't add up using the DMG guidelines. It's more art than science, after all.

I would say it’s less either of those and more “dartboard”.

Who cares? It's a 1/4CR creature. After first level is a DM going to throw a pack of 20 feral giant badgers at you?

So we should forgive shoddy design because it’s early in the game and/or not relevant for long? Because I’ve seen people say that high level stuff doesn’t matter because it rarely sees play, and if low level play doesn’t matter because you’re not there for long, what levels should we actually care about?

Might be making mountains out of badger hills here, but if it swung in the opposite direction to too powerful it could have a lot of negative consequences since low levels are the first things people see. It’s also aggravating from the DM’s perspective because when you contrast their given formulas for CR against what’s in the book and come up short, it makes it harder to gauge whether or not it’s appropriate for your group. Helping the DM homebrew monsters is one of the purposes of the DM’s guide, so it doing so poorly is cause for concern.

 

[LordEntrails]

So we should forgive shoddy design because it’s early in the game and/or not relevant for long? Because I’ve seen people say that high level stuff doesn’t matter because it rarely sees play, and if low level play doesn’t matter because you’re not there for long, what levels should we actually care about?

Except it's not shoddy design. People have already used the guidelines to show that the published CR value is acceptably accurate.

It's also not a "dartboard" Because I tried to say simply in another response, CR is not something that can be used as an absolute. Because the capabilities of every party varies, and the abilities of every player varies and because the abilities of every DM varies. And because their is a randomness (which some call luck) to every encounter.

That's the way the game is designed. If the outcome of every encounter was a foregone conclusion, then why bother to play? Just like life, sometimes things happen that shouldn't. Just because my car should be safe for me if I drive into a wall at 30mph, doesn't mean that I AM going to be safe. Just because a party should be able to take on an equal CR encounter, doesn't mean that some character might not die anyway.

So, getting ... cranky about some creature that in your opinion is off by one CR interval is not productive. If you think a giant badger should be a CR of 1/8, then make it 1/8. If you think it should be 1/2, then make it that for your game. Because the other factors involved in any given encounter are going to be more significant to the outcome anyway.

 

[Helldritch]

Hey it's a giant badger! Take a picture boys, 'cause it'll be the last time we see one. It's only CR 1/4!

12 level later...

The evil priest of Malar (read evil druid here...) laughs maddly as he says: " Fools! My army shall destroy you all!"
Here comes the army of 101 giant badgers...

In short: Never laugh at the small CRs...

 

[Xeviat]

I suppose it's important when you're trying to create balanced animal companions.

 

[Henry]

Who cares? It's a 1/4CR creature. After first level is a DM going to throw a pack of 20 feral giant badgers at you?

[Fistpump]YEAH![/Fistpump]

I did throw a pack of 15 Giant Rats at a first level party - does that count?

 

[nexalis]

I suppose it's important when you're trying to create balanced animal companions.

Giant Badger is one of only two animal companions available to the new UA Beastmaster with access to darkvision (the other is Giant Weasel). That is definitely a consideration depending on the style of game you play.

 

[Dausuul]

Except it's not shoddy design. People have already used the guidelines to show that the published CR value is acceptably accurate.

Actually it isn't; it's too low. This is a CR 1/2 monster listed as 1/4. That's arguably worse than a CR 1/8 listed as 1/4.

It's also not a "dartboard" Because I tried to say simply in another response, CR is not something that can be used as an absolute. Because the capabilities of every party varies, and the abilities of every player varies and because the abilities of every DM varies. And because their is a randomness (which some call luck) to every encounter.

Ermmm... all of these statements are true, but they don't invalidate the "dartboard" complaint. If you have two monsters, identical except that one has more hit points and does more damage, the latter will pose a bigger threat in all circumstances. Ergo, it should have a higher CR.

As you say, CR cannot be taken as an absolute. You can't know how much of a threat a CR 5 monster will be to a 3rd-level party unless you know the builds of the PCs and the skills of the players. But CR should be reasonably reliable as a relative measure: A CR 5 monster is more of a threat than a similar CR 4 monster, and the difference is fairly well measured by their XP values. That's why we want CRs to follow the DMG guidelines. It makes that relative measure more reliable.