Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[Remathilis]

I have not designed some high level exploits but posted my WL. There are high level action surge type things for the entire group.

The inspiring ne might be a mix of the 4E one+ 3.5 Marshal basically powerful auras and 4E type powers/ exploits.

But do those abilities equal the opportunity cost of a spellcaster in that role?

Take raising the dead. Clerics and Bards get Raise Dead as a 5th level spell. Druids get Reincarnate. Both of those spells will bring a fallen ally back to life hours or days later. What power can a Warlord have that possibly equals that and doesn't either a.) re-write reality (turns out Bob wasn't dead after all...) or b.) Isn't magic? And if he can't bring the dead back, why should someone play him over a druid, bard, or cleric?

I mean, buffing is fine and all, but I certainly wouldn't want a Warlord over a Cleric, Druid or Bard in my party if it means lacking access to Lesser/Greater Restoration, or Raise Dead/Reincarnate. Take a look at those three classes spell lists and find the overlaps; THOSE are the effects a Warlord MUST mimic if he is to hang with them. That is what the Leader/Healer/Support role looks like in 5e.

 

[Leatherhead]

The problem is, you can't do that in 5e without magic. A Warlord can't remove status ailments like poison or disease. He can't raise a dead ally. He has no access to divination or transportation magic. No access to survival magic like goodberry, create food or rope trick. And at high level, he's going to lack even reasonable buffs and debuffs that can match mindblank, antipathy, or holy aura. There is no way to match these abilities without magic or extreme handwaving.

There is no way to make the warlord match the cleric or bard in 5e without giving him 9 levels of spells. The best you can do it match a paladin, barbarian or ranger in terms of "warrior with special powers", but a character that tries to do a cleric or bard's job without magic is doomed to fail.

More for consideration:
Healing isn't worth as much as it used to be.
In combat healing only needs to function as a way to prevent people from bleeding out and grant them consciousness. It isn't necessary to heal nearly every round as a bonus action, only sometimes using whatever means you have.
Out of combat healing is greatly accelerated, to the point where the game designers basically consider being topped off multiple times a day to be the normal (see the discussions around Healing Spirit)

 

[Tony Vargas]

Why not just allow both?

Zone of Control: As an action, you can choose area or a target creature. If you choose a creature, your zone of control extends 5' from the target and remains centered on the target if it moves.
At level X your zone size increases.."

So you can say "I'm watching the doorway." or "I'm watching the dragon."

Sounds good, and doesn't fall into the trap of dogmatically assuming that TotM can't accommodate tactics.

Especially tactics in the sense of modeling a character being adept at tactics, rather than giving a player a tactical challenge.

 

[mellored]

I can live with that, especially the 10-foot aura centered on a ‘target creature’.

I'd start with 5', and expand to 10' at higher level. Possibly even 15'.
But yea, on enemies, allies, and even yourself for the lead-from-the-front warlord.

Though, i'd make the area useage a bit bigger.

Edit: or even objects. Because, why not keep an eye on the artifact.

How about ‘Zone of Focus’. I enjoy the image of the warlord, attentive and alert, and responding to anything that can happen.

Ehh.... Zone of Control already has useage in other tactical war games.
Though, it's usually used the same way as D&D uses opportunity attacks, hampering movements of adjacent enemies. So might not be the best term.

How about "Overwatch Zone"?

 

[FrogReaver]

So basically Mearls is ignoring the basic use case of rogue sneak attack in all his attack granting use cases. Great. What could possibly go wrong...

At least this subclass won't suffer the fate of most of the other martial subclasses that focus on support (being to weak). It will sadly be to strong and will have to be banned any time someone wants to play a rogue

 

[Zardnaar]

But do those abilities equal the opportunity cost of a spellcaster in that role?

Take raising the dead. Clerics and Bards get Raise Dead as a 5th level spell. Druids get Reincarnate. Both of those spells will bring a fallen ally back to life hours or days later. What power can a Warlord have that possibly equals that and doesn't either a.) re-write reality (turns out Bob wasn't dead after all...) or b.) Isn't magic? And if he can't bring the dead back, why should someone play him over a druid, bard, or cleric?

I mean, buffing is fine and all, but I certainly wouldn't want a Warlord over a Cleric, Druid or Bard in my party if it means lacking access to Lesser/Greater Restoration, or Raise Dead/Reincarnate. Take a look at those three classes spell lists and find the overlaps; THOSE are the effects a Warlord MUST mimic if he is to hang with them. That is what the Leader/Healer/Support role looks like in 5e.

That is kind of the clerics niche as Druids and Bards do not get all of those spells either or they have limits on how many spells they do know (Bards).

The 4E WL could not do a lot of that either non magically.

5E has more ways of healing without a dedicated healer (healer feat, hit dice etc) or ways to gain extra hit points.

Alot of those spells you do not need access to all of the time (if ever) and you may need to find an NPC with raise dead capabilities. Its a cleric niche Druids for example do not get raise dead or prayer of healing. Niche protection I suppose even 4E had it (Rangers were the best at damage dealing).

Basically if you want all the best healing things be a cleric, if you want to b the best at that be a life cleric, if you want a lot of it and better offensive magic be a Druid, if you play a lore bard its up to you how many spells known/stolen you devote to it.

 

[Yaarel]

Personally, I would like hitting zero hit points to more clearly mean, ‘life and limb’.

Such as, the possibility of remaining conscious but breaking an arm. In this case, no risk of death, but instead an ongoing condition, until the bone heals.

I havent decided the best mechanic to use to allow for both possibilities, limb damage and death from internal bleeding (shock).

So, for example, if someone gets hit by a sword on the neck, maybe no vital damage happened, but the collar bone broke. Now the victim cant move their arm and is probably stunned from having the wind knocked out of them.



When zero hit points has the risk of enduring conditions, the phenomenon of ‘wack-a-mole’ will subside to more realistic levels.

 

[Zardnaar]

Personally, I would like hitting zero hit points to more clearly mean, ‘life and limb’.

Such as, the possibility of remaining conscious but breaking an arm. In this case, no risk of death, but instead an ongoing condition, until the bone heals.

I havent decided the best mechanic to use to allow for both possibilities, limb damage and death from internal bleeding (shock).

So, for example, if someone get a sword hit on the neck, maybe no vital damage happened but the collar bone broke. Now the victim cant move their arm and is probably stunned from having the wind knocked out of them.



When zero hit points has the risk of enduring conditions, the phenomenon of ‘wack-a-mole’ will subside to more realistic levels.

Buy 2E combat and tactics and use their critical hit rules for when you are reduced to 0hp or write a module for bad things happen at 0hp.

 

[cbwjm]

So basically Mearls is ignoring the basic use case of rogue sneak attack in all his attack granting use cases. Great. What could possibly go wrong...

At least this subclass won't suffer the fate of most of the other martial subclasses that focus on support (being to weak). It will sadly be to strong and will have to be banned any time someone wants to play a rogue

He went over this in the first warlord stream. They don't balance around best case scenario, they want those players who play these combos to feel powerful.

 

[Yaarel]

Buy 2E combat and tactics and use their critical hit rules for when you are reduced to 0hp or write a module for bad things happen at 0hp.

The tradition of wounds at 0 hp is valuable.

But, I dislike rolling random outcomes on a variegated table.

I want a more flexible mechanic that follows the narrative context, and yields organic outcomes.